Advice - Labs v Golden Retriever??

You know Bbrown, I think it is because the majority of labs here are North American lines and there are a lot of them, and unfortunately they are not given enough exercise or structure. I find the breed eager and smart.

 

I would say there is quite a large split in the US between working and show line (I'm not up on the current situation as I've not lived there for a while). From what I've heard this is also true in the UK. However, so far from taking to breeders and judges here in Germany, there is no split here. They feel a working breed should be bred to work, even if they are also shown. The judges are looking for "gaminess" (also could be called high energy prey drive) and a dog who will literally pull their handler around the ring and bounce on the end of a leash when doing a show pose. This is VERY different from the shows I attended in the past in the US and far from the "steady self-confidence" that to me Rotties should have. Essentially, the Germans are breeding for Schutzhund where the dog was originally a cattle drover and herd guardian. NOT an attack dog. But that's a whole other controversy that is way off topic here in a forum about Labs. So off my soapbox!

But your "big and powerful but soft as melted butter" is what a Rottie is to me, so spot on. And the bitches are significantly smaller than the males, so can look quite petite. What people call "American" style (really show line) have the longer legs and less stocky body, where the "German" style (really working line) are shorter, compacter. Mmmm...sounds a bit like show/field labs! Why do we Americans like to stretch out our dogs...has to be some psychology about that. ;-)

 

It is great to have a chance to discuss this difference Emily, Having both experienced living both sides of the pond. I have to say I admire the German breeding protocol. As I mentioned it starts by just because you have a full registered dog doesn't mean the pups will be registered, unless the dog proves it has working ability.
I find with rotties, dobs and GSDs that they are more skittish here and finer boned. I read or heard somewhere that there was a deliberate effort to breed "softer" dogs. Is this true? If so does this explain the above skittishness?

As for the labs, I like both styles.

 

Well, obviously talking Rotties is way my thing, so hopefully the powers that be here on the forum will forgive me!

I also admire the German strictness when breeding. AKC "papers" don't really mean much, but true to German culture, you really have to make sure all is in order to meet the standards of the ADRK (German Rottie club) and breed ADRK registered puppies. Having had a dog with ED, two torn cruciates (and 2 subsequent TPLO surgeries) and spondylosis, I have to say I appreciate breeding for health. I really believe in rescue, but I also think there is an important place for breeding when breeders do so to improve breed health and temperament.

I simply don't agree with pigeon-holing Rotties as "only" Schutzhund working dogs as they seem to do in Germany. They can do so much more, but the same ADRK strictness that means that German Rotties are healthier (in theory) also means breeders are striving for dogs that excel in Schutzhund, not a dog that also herds, droves, does obedience and scent work. It just seems a shame to lose the well-roundedness of the breed. This is one thing that really attracts me to Labs. Yes, they are retrievers, but because they've been used in so many areas in addition to "just" field work, you can really see the great potential of the breed.

Skittish does not equal soft, in my opinion. To me, soft simply means not so dominant. And given the choice, I'd take dominant over skittish. I can work with dominant, but skittish (or worse, reactivity) in a big powerful dog can be downright dangerous. To be honest, I've not met enough Rotties other than my own to know if anyone was trying to breed them softer. However, the tendency with Rotties (and pits and American bull dogs, etc.) is that people want them "tough", to the detriment of the breed. So I'd be thrilled if there was a new trend for "softer" family-friendly Rotties, as long as soft meant confident, willingness to work and affectionate. This is what Rotties are to me already!

Physical differences aside, this is exactly why I like GSDs better over here (especially in Spain) - they are worlds less nervous/skittish. I've not seen a single Doberman (except in dog shows) here in six years, so can't say. Heck, I've only ever seen THREE Rotties on the street in six years. These are not breeds people take out for the evening stroll in town...sadly. This is another reason Brogan got so much attention whether we were in Spain, Germany, Ireland or Italy - he was a really rare sight.

OK, I just wrote a book again...lol. You can only imagine how much I talk in real life, especially on the subject of dogs!

 

Yes I'm a talker lol.
The versatility of the lab is also one of the attractions for me. I find as an instructor they are keen and smart, which I like. I also like they are a well loved breed so you will probably be welcomed in a lot of places.
Like the golden I think they are great family dogs.
There is a reason they are the #1 breed in many countries.

 

Oooo... are you a dog trainer then? I've been meaning to corner one here and Germany and ask them what they thought of the Labs here. This is totally off the topic of this thread, but do you think that Labs are easier/harder to train than dogs from the working group? Or just different?

Admission: I used to think that the #1 breed meant B-O-R-I-N-G. I'm ready and willing to eat my hat on that opinion. I'm seeing it now more as the flexibility of the breed to adapt to so many diverse jobs. Quite an impressive feat for a dog originally bred to fetch dead critters. ;-)

 

I find the labs a dream to work, interestingly enough I quite like working weimaraners.
I am a border collie girl, but I find the labs just as eager but a bit more level headed.
I sometimes teach puppy, adult obedience and intro agility. I kind of rotate through.
But I am a scent detection instructor, and also run a demo team.
I got into the sport about 2 years ago.

 

Cool, thanks for answering. Interesting that you really like working with Labs if your main breed has been BCs. I would think they are very different. I need to find a puppy class to stalk....er... observe so I can see some of the the little guys in action.