A college friend of mine with a GSD/husky cross stumbled across an interesting article that she said seemed to explain her dog's disdain for retrievers and forwarded it to me. https://sarahwilsondogexpert.com/why-does-my-herding-dog-seem-to-hate-labs/ I read it and thought it was rife with over-generalization but I researched the matter further and stumbled across a couple of herding dog forums discussing the article. http://www.bordercollie.org/boards/index.php?showtopic=35235 http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...e-why-does-my-herding-dog-seem-hate-labs.html There are more forum topics and several owners of herding dogs who disagree with Sarah Wilson's assertion but also a good many who do agree. Pondering the matter further I remembered an incident with a BC at the dog park. Teller is normally a confident, playful dog (sometimes TOO playful, but that's another issue) but as soon as that BC saw him and started giving him 'the eye,' he backed away and hid behind me. That was one of the only times he didn't even bother trying to initiate play with another dog. There are not a great deal of BCs around me and I'm unsure if it was that particular dog but has anybody else noticed labs and BCs not getting along very well? On the other hand, he played quite nicely with a GSD pup and a sheltie mix so I am curious what everybody thinks.
Over-generalisations aplenty, yes. But that doesn't mean there can't be some basis in reality. We have a neighbour with a BC who is almost exactly the same age as my two. She's a lovely little thing, and regularly tries to initiate play. It never works. There's no bad feelings between them, but they play in very different ways. She doesn't understand - and is a little afraid of - the shoulder-barging, boisterous nature of Willow and Shadow in play mode, and they don't understand why she keeps trying to herd them. Their attempts at play generally last less than a minute before they all give up and just bimble together. On the other hand, my two don't have that mentioned Lab trait of trying to invade another dog's personal space. Quite the opposite, Willow hates having her space invaded. She's ambivalent to most strange dogs. She won't run up to them and she doesn't tolerate bad behaviour from other dogs towards her. Shadow get anxious around lots of other dogs - at a distance, you can see him becoming unsure and nervous, and if you get too close, he starts acting out. Definitely not your archetypal Labs.
The book Sarah Wilson wrote with Brian Killcommons, "Good Owners, Great Dogs" was practically my bible back with Jet puppy in 1993 so I'm prepared to take her with more than just a grain of salt. The theory in that short blog does seem to have some generalizations that make sense, dogs bred for different purposes might not act as each expects. My same Jet, a black Lab, was best friends with my sister's English Shepherd, a breed that is rather like a border collie. Laddie thought he was herding Jet, Jet thought they were playing tag and Laddie was always "it" and they had a great time together. I didn't notice either Jet or Oban liking one breed or not more than others but I have noticed a breed that doesn't seem to like my Labs and it IS Siberian Huskies. Based on the troubles we've had, big Vet bills, another recent attack on Oban, if I would ban a breed here based on my problems it would be Sibes, not Pitbulls. I know it's the owners' fault but after attacks by two teams of Siberians it's easy to not be rational.
I've sadly had ' a lot of trouble with huskys. I keep my dogs away from them actively avoiding them. All of my dogs have been attacked by them but not seriously. Their body language always gives them away they can be really stroppy. Unfortunately i live next to one who caused so much trouble the dog warden has threatened them with prosecution . The main problem seems to be owners not really understanding their nature. I know it's not the dogs fault but it's hard to feel kind towards a dog that is hanging from your 14 year old dogs neck for the 3rd time. It used to try to get me too I had to carry a large metal pole just to use my own garden
Stanley likes all dogs. He especially seems to like bigger dogs - I think it's because he can play a bit rougher with them. His bestest friend in the whole entire world is Eric, a English bull terrier at daycare. Apparently they don't stop playing together all day and they're both just as daft as each other
I agree with the blog - I think it's right. I do think Labradors are space bargers and over enthusiastic greeters. I think as owners of Labradors, and if you own one like this (not all are) then you need to take steps to try to encourage your dog to tone it down. I also agree with the end of the blog though: I can tell you – that Shepherd is not a “dog park dog.” Have fun with your herding dog in other ways if yours takes such offence. Labradors are the most popular dogs in many countries, so dogs are going to meet them - again and again. It's just how it is and owners of other types of dogs need to socialise their dogs careful and well to enthusiastic Labradors. I think it cuts both ways, my dogs need to tone it down - Charlie is actually now exceptionally good, Betsy is a 7 month old block head, every Border Collie's worst nightmare - and other dogs need to react in a well socialised and proportionate way. Here is Betsy - look how she dashed right up at high speed to the other dog and said 'Play! Play! Play!'. The other owner and dog approached us, and I'd warned about Betsy jumping up and being very boisterous with the other dog before I said 'say hello'. Betsy rapidly gets barked at which was quite helpful because it gave me a chance to get Betsy's attention back on me. Betsy greeting by julieandcharlie julieandcharlie, on Flickr
Different breeds definitely have divergent styles of play and herding dogs, if they do play, seem to prefer acting 'referee'. Teller plays the best with large, young male dogs. A lot of times he is too much for females and they will tell him off accordingly. He seems to like most dogs but there have definitely been dogs that did not like him. A labradoodle tried to bite him as did a standard poodle. Teller definitely does not like to be herded but will allow himself to be chased and nipped, I think 'the eye' is what makes him nervous regarding BCs. I've never encountered a husky at the dog park but I am surprised by how many people say they are not very nice dogs. I've only met a couple of huskies and they were decently friendly towards people but I haven't seen them interacting with other dogs. The husky in her might explain why my friend's dog has such a high prey drive; she will try to kill anything smaller than her apparently. There's plenty of pits and pit mixes around me and all but two were very nice dogs. The other two weren't necessarily aggressive but they were just females who weren't very tolerant of other dogs. I second this, haha! Teller is definitely a space-barger and way too enthusiastic. What steps do you take to tone it down? I would be very interested. I've heard you are supposed to exercise them before taking them to the dog park so they are not overflowing with energy but other than that, I wish I could curb some of it. He just seems to go completely bonkers when playing and is oftentimes quite rough with it. Lol, I love your videos with Betsy! She's a very pretty girl.
Today Stanley had a bit of a strop on his walk because he encountered three dogs who were all a bit grumpy and not allowed to play with him. He sat down having a bit of a cry (he's such a ding). Then a big Labrador came bounding over while her owner called her back. I let him have a little play because he was so sad and me & the other owner pulled the "we own Labrador" faces at each other. It's a good job we understand each other
@JenBainbridge - Aww, poor Stanley! Teller always whines whenever a dog doesn't want to play. Hahaha, that face is the exact same one I made when my boy swam across a river to play with two dogs on the opposite shore.
Well, we don't have dog parks in the UK so I'm not sure about the dynamics there. My first strategy is that I don't want my dogs interested in other dogs at all. I want them to be confident, but not want to play - I want them to be more interested in me and not playing with other dogs at all. So I work to have them ignore all other dogs, or greet briefly, and then move on. With my puppy, I try to not let her run up to other dogs at all unless I say 'say hello'. As soon as I've done that, I'm waiting for her to show any attention at all to me and then I immediately reward that. If she doesn't pay attention to me, I would try to interrupt her. If I failed, I'd go get her. If I succeeded, I'd let her play some more. I interrupt any rough play by my puppy immediately, I do not let her continue in rough play at all. Because I choose the dogs she greets, I try to choose dogs that I think are unlikely to want to play with her very much. Another young Labrador is the very last kind of dog that I'd let her play with. If she is playing appropriately, say a chase game, and it looks good, I'll let her continue in that. With my older dog, I leave him to it because he now generally wants to move away from other dogs as quickly as he can and return to me - this is exactly what I want.
I am very lucky that Harley rarely ever goes up to a dog we don't know. 99% of the time she will ignore them, or have a quick sniff if they come over then comes straight over to me to play. If it's a dog she knows (and that I know) she will play, but not in a jumpy all over each other way. She loves having a dog chase her/her ball and will happily give them the ball and chase them til they drop it. She will happily walk alongside them just sniffing and hanging out. Generally the dogs she will say hi to are other labs. Unfortunately she has been attacked 4 times by collies (3 times by one, once by another). Most of the time we are the other side of the field or in the middle playing/training, and the one that's attacked her 3 times will race over and literally have teeth bared, growling and very aggressive. The first 2 times Harley was desperately trying to get away from him and get to me. The third time she did react back by telling him off - she has never bit, but has been bit twice by this dog. The owner is useless and just says they can't stop him doing it . Today she played for 2 mins with a Rottie. They met on lead (as I always wait to see how comfortable Harley is with them before letting them play) they had a good sniff and both had relaxed body postures so we let them off lead and they played lovely. The owners were great and we stopped play as I wanted to end our walk on a positive. The owners said very few people let their dogs play with him as he's so big, even though he's only 11 months old (and gorgeous).
I remember talking about labrador behaviour with our puppy class trainer. There was a young working collie in the group too who was adorable but obviously a bit nervous. One point she mentioned, is that with naturally nervous pups, in some cases their first exposure to labrador pups/adolescents can be a negative one due to their naturally bouncy nature of a lot of labradors. She also was talking in context of puppy groups that allow a lot of boisterous play.
Can definitely attest to this. Brogan had a strong herding instinct (as did my first Rottie) and I really had to watch for him playing "police". He did NOT like roughhousing between bigger dogs and smaller dogs and felt it was his job to tell off the bigger "bully" and keep everyone safe. This may sound sweet, but it actually was kind of a pain in the posterior to control. Luckily he minded well and I'd just tell him to chill out and let the other dogs play and he would, especially once he got past the spaz age of 4 years or so. Brogan really was a dog racist, though...LOL. He was terrified of boxers and Great Danes (two breeds I love), and loved poodles, Newfies and chihuahuas the best. I agree that the usual troublemakers in the dog park where I used to go frequently in California were the huskies and the wolf hybrids. Gorgeous but very unpredictable. Oh, and Jack Russells...especially in a pack. Those little guys are like pint-sized Viking warriors. I really love all breeds, but those last few I just always give a bit more space to until I know what's up. Never had a bit of trouble with a Labrador in a dog park, though. The ones I remember were much more interested in chasing their nasty drooly tennis balls than interacting with other dogs.
