Re: Back to School For Us! Can't add anything to Rachael's thoughts - exactly. Now I've got decent wi-fi, I watched the vid. Well, Dex looks friendly, relaxed, chilled with his mates, and is more interested in you than the other dogs. Jeez...I could do you a vid of Charlie that would cheer you up no end! ;D
Re: Back to School For Us! [quote author=JulieT link=topic=7808.msg110191#msg110191 date=1410911483] Jeez...I could do you a vid of Charlie that would cheer you up no end! ;D [/quote] LOLOL, and Obi's vid would make you ecstatic ;D ;D ;D
Re: Back to School For Us! Yup, I wouldn't like to hear what she would say about Simba's dog park behaviour
Re: Back to School For Us! [quote author=Oberon link=topic=7808.msg110176#msg110176 date=1410903785] I think that life will be easier once you make further progress with ignoring other dogs on lead. As many of us have said in this thread - we're right there rowing in that same boat But don't worry if he is not going to ever be the life of the party... [/quote] As always Rachael is on the money Jen's BAT thread helped us enormously with ignoring on lead dogs, barking dogs, lunging dogs etc. and it is sooo much easier now - BUT still working on it. Charlie is definitely not a party boy but he does love humans, he said a very excited 'good morning' to a jogger at 6 am today but she loved him and stopped to make a fuss of him much to his delight All dogs are different as are all humans. I think we can over analyse everything and try to micro manage too much, I know for my own sanity I had to take a massive step back and when I did Charlie seemed to chill out and life suddenly became easier, of course he is 3 1/2 years old so it could be he is just growing up at last : Dexter is a great dog and you will get there as we all will xxx
Re: Back to School For Us! Helen, I think that is the most sensible piece of advise I have ever read , I quote "I think we can over analyse every thing and try to micro manage too much, ............I had to take a massive step back and I did Charlie seemed to chill out and life became much easier" I think as a bunch on Labrador Site, we tend to be more conscientious then many dog owners and then screw ourselves up with worry.
Re: Back to School For Us! I've been thinking about you a lot Angela though not commenting extensively on this thread. Possibly part of the problem comes from Dexter's past, since although he was together with other kennel mates at the breeders, he probably didnt meet lots of strange dogs, so has missed out on a slice of socialization.. Not to worry though, I think you are doing a great job with him and he is a friendly chap, just a little wary of dogs he doesn't know yet! I'm sure the others are right - desensitization is the way to go, until eventually you'll be able to walk quietly through the park with strange dogs left and right of you, and Dexter ignoring them. Keep at it Angela, and chin up, he's a lovely boy and a credit to you. Stacia, just read your comment about the worrying... how right you are!
Re: Back to School For Us! I think Stacia is exactly right. We are a super conscientious lot on this site. If we ask a trainer to critique our dog they will. They have got to find something to say. Every creature has it's foibles, but we tend to focus on things because we care so much. Unfortunately some of our Labs behaviours are a bit anti-social. The super friendliness is a bit much when they bound up to a stranger and jump on them or their dog. This is heartfelt, written by a woman who is struggling with her own boisterous, super friendly dog. Doesn't mean I am not doing my best to ensure that she isn't making a nuisance of herself to others. Like you I'm busting a gut trying.
Re: Back to School For Us! [quote author=Oberon link=topic=7808.msg110176#msg110176 date=1410903785] Just putting this out there....does it really matter if he's not a big social butterfly in a strange situation? [/quote] It doesn't at all Rachael you are dead right ;D I think I was just feeling a bit sorry for us that the picture I had in my head of us is very different to the reality of us at the moment :'( BUT that doesn't mean that it will always be that way ;D ;D ;D [quote author=charlie link=topic=7808.msg110224#msg110224 date=1410937861] I had to take a massive step back and when I did Charlie seemed to chill out and life suddenly became easier, [/quote] Last night I just set off on lead Helen and thought well if Dexter is having to be on his lead for the rest of his life ( he won't) what the hell,he will still be happy and loved .I stuck my whistle in my mouth for the whole of the walk and practiced sitting to it along the way,it helped us get a turn around from a really nuts dog and I think using it stopped the nerves that are on my voice but that I try hard to disguise being apparent to dexter .[quote author=Karen link=topic=7808.msg110252#msg110252 date=1410944724] I've been thinking about you a lot Angela though not commenting extensively on this thread. Possibly part of the problem comes from Dexter's past, since although he was together with other kennel mates at the breeders, he probably didnt meet lots of strange dogs, so has missed out on a slice of socialization.. [/quote] Perceptive Karen and having seen the set up now I 100% agree x I'm rushing to get out on our walk now but just wanted to check on to say that our lesson went really well today,we just practiced with one very steady Dalmatian to get a base line ...but Dexter did really well,we weren't a show at all. The ironic thing was that the lesson I went to to help me with my reactive,nervous dog was interrupted by the warehouse next door going on fire.....alarms and sirens going off left right and centre,not to mention all the dogs barking,Dexter handled it really well,it was only the barking that made him react for just a couple of seconds and that was only his fur raising,no barking from him x Thanks for all your lovely comments and help,xxx
Re: Back to School For Us! If I could video S&S reacting to a person they don't know approaching with the obvious intention of touching I don't think you would describe Dex as a reactive,nervous dog. . I'm not trying to down play how your feeling or what your experiencing Angela. I hope you don't think that. :-\. I'm just trying to say you can and will work through it, it will be ok. ;D
Re: Back to School For Us! So glad the lesson went well. [quote author=Jen link=topic=7808.msg110342#msg110342 date=1410969057] If I could video S&S reacting to a person they don't know approaching with the obvious intention of touching I don't think you would describe Dex as a reactive,nervous dog. . [/quote] I was thinking the same - not about S&S obviously. But not to jump to Dex being a reactive, nervous dog. Sure, sounds like you've got some work to do (don't we all : ) but Dex might be a dog with a "reserved" personality. Charlie - who is more of a social mad super charged brown bat rather than butterfly - hates people patting him on his head...
Re: Back to School For Us! i think a big part of the problem (for me, anyway) is the picture we have in our heads of how it's "supposed to be." we all have these preconceived notions of labs as being sweet, friendly, well-mannered, intelligent, and obedient.... but no one ever tells us how hard it is to get there!!! haha reminds me of a terrific quote/piece of advice i heard from another parent - he told his child this when his child said, "but everyone ELSE seems like they have GOT IT TOGETHER and i don't!" the parent said, "never compare your insides to someone else's outsides." i think that should apply to us, too, with our sweet babies. they're all individuals, and they don't deserve to be compared to other dogs, and we certainly shouldn't beat ourselves up over those same comparisons --- we've no idea what those other owners have or have not struggled with. all we know is the love we have for our own babies, and the certainty that we are doing our very best, every minute of every day, and that we should have fun doing it. goodness knows my orion has his foibles.... and he's firmly in his adolescent phase, so we're really struggling, but i speak well of him, i praise him when he does nicely, and i love him every moment of every day. in the end, it'll all sort itself out, i do believe, with consistency and love. much like raising children, no? ;D
Re: Back to School For Us! [quote author=Suthuncat link=topic=7808.msg110618#msg110618 date=1411048244] i think a big part of the problem (for me, anyway) is the picture we have in our heads of how it's "supposed to be." we all have these preconceived notions of labs as being sweet, friendly, well-mannered, intelligent, and obedient.... but no one ever tells us how hard it is to get there!!! haha reminds me of a terrific quote/piece of advice i heard from another parent - he told his child this when his child said, "but everyone ELSE seems like they have GOT IT TOGETHER and i don't!" the parent said, "never compare your insides to someone else's outsides." i think that should apply to us, too, with our sweet babies. they're all individuals, and they don't deserve to be compared to other dogs, and we certainly shouldn't beat ourselves up over those same comparisons --- we've no idea what those other owners have or have not struggled with. all we know is the love we have for our own babies, and the certainty that we are doing our very best, every minute of every day, and that we should have fun doing it. goodness knows my orion has his foibles.... and he's firmly in his adolescent phase, so we're really struggling, but i speak well of him, i praise him when he does nicely, and i love him every moment of every day. in the end, it'll all sort itself out, i do believe, with consistency and love. much like raising children, no? ;D [/quote] You are right Paula,they are all different and shouldn't be shoe horned into a stereo type,I guess members that have had the pleasure of enjoying more than one dog can certainly understand that
Re: Back to School For Us! I never fully realized it till we got our Orion and I saw that - while he has similarities to my sweet yellow we lost last year - he also has very distinct differences!!
Re: Back to School For Us! Ok so we are 2 weeks on from my original post and whilst I've been a little quiet due to having visitors staying with me,I've not been neglecting our work and have still been tackling our problem by doing the following things: I've had 4 x 121 sessions at a Dog Training Centre .....this has just been us in a room on lead with another dog on lead + handler and the Dog Trainer.We started very steadily with a lovely dalmation who couldn't have cared less if we were in the room or not : Our starting point was behind a screen and we had to come out and walk around a designated area with the instruction for me to click Dexter's interest in the other dog....this felt a bit wrong to me,it felt like we were rewarding him staring and his 'high alert ' behavior.Actually what it made him do at the distance we were working at was to look at me for a treat.God bless the clicker!after a few reps he was looking at the dog and swinging his head around for the treat automatically and by the end of this session we were walking nicely past the dog with normal breathing and nice focus on me....and we were starting to use 'with me' as our turn cue to go back to our safe place behind the screen ............Then the Warehouse next door went on Fire,seriously ,and all the dogs started barking and Dexter got a bit flummoxed ....but considering the melee of Fire-engines,people and sirens he did very well......and everyone was safe x Our next Session was with a lovely yellow lab ,who is very friendly but a bit like my yellow fellow,has bad manners...he is prone to staring .....hard!We came out from screen at the distance we'd started working at in the previous session and Dexter leapt like a dolphin!!!Embarassing but hey,that's what we were there for.This session was harder ,the handler had to keep the yellow lab from staring at Dex and we had to practice our focus walking around.......closing distance was slower and then we had to go back to a bigger distance and do it all again with the other dog allowed to look at us.We did get pretty close ,but not as good as the first lesson..... My 3 rd lesson we started off with the yellow lab......no reaction from Dexter at all....just looking at the dog then looking back at me perfectly he did start staring and his forehead crinkling as we closed the distance So I needed to cue him 'look at me' which he did well and his turning away and walking off with me was really good.We have yet to meet a really reactive dog in the classroom ( the available dogs are the daycare attendees ) but what I've learned so far is really helping me out on our neighbourhood walks. My dog walker / sitter (when I'm away on holiday)attended the 4 th lesson with him.i wanted her to have a session so that we are all doing the same thing ......yes Chris's turn will come : Again he was working with a pretty non reactive large dog and he wasn't lunging or overly interested at all...so much so that I got called in the room to be a distraction so that my walker could practice her 'with me's ' as Dexter lunged to get to me. We are on the list to attend a Reactive Rover course at the beginning of October when we will get to work around some new dogs that are a bit more like us ;D These few lessons have given me much more confidence for when we are out and about .....I'm not completely rid of my unease when I see another dog but instead of feeling dread I'm trying to see it positively as a practice opportunity.We are still having 'high alert ' behaviour and the excited breathing but everything feels a lot more under control.Since everyone has returned after the Summer break a few more dogs are appearing in the park each evening ( to the point where I think I'm opting out of our tea time runarounds.it's getting a bit too busy,and it's always been a privelege not a right. 2 miniature schnauzers have played off lead at tea time all summer with us and one of them nipped a little girl the other eve :'( I wasn't there and have been told there was no blood drawn..but apparently there were dogs running round everywhere and kids getting really excited in the middle of it all......that's too chaotic for me :-\) we have been doing our walk...having a quick play if it's quiet and then moving away and just sitting quietly on lead watching the other dogs and practising our turns away. Dexters focus on me is so much better,I'm getting spontaneous eye contact all the time.Id say the first week ,his 'look at me 'was 'look at the treat bag'......so I moved my bag to my right hip and pointed at my eyes ,he only got a reward if he looked into my eyes...this was actually harder than it sounds to capture,it's so quick at first......but now it feels quite relaxed and I often have to be the one to break it.Aggggh I need to phase my treats out now though ....and this is another area I struggle and fail in ...I know about the gambling effect but I'm so delighted he really looks at me,I feel like I want to reward every glance :-[ ...I guess I'm lacking the confidence and think he will stop doing it if I don't reward him....but I need to consider this.The dog trainer is going to come out with me for a walk in about a week to 10 days so i know she will tell me if I am over rewarding and hopefully help me with it. Something else Ive done that has had a positive effect is I have cut down the duration of his walk on the mornings his walk is a lead walk ( twice a week)......what I was finding was he could walk nicely on a loose lead ( give or take the first few minutes settling down being excited to be out) for 50mins -1 hour....then he starts getting sloppy ( probably bored) and yo yoing!so the last 20/30 mins could be a bit of an ordeal.....pulling to sniff,even more interested in other dogs etc.we do 45-50 mins now and we seem to end as good as we start.......the weather is cooling now so I won't be restricted to that 5-7 am window of outside time......if I think he needs some more we can go later in the day ,yipee ;D So there we go,that is us so far,you were all so kind helping me and giving me advice ,I'm sorry it's a long post :-\
Re: Back to School For Us! That sounds brill! Fantastic progress, well done! [quote author=Dexter link=topic=7808.msg113297#msg113297 date=1411909347] Aggggh I need to phase my treats out now though ....and this is another area I struggle and fail in ...I know about the gambling effect but I'm so delighted he really looks at me,I feel like I want to reward every glance :-[ ...I guess I'm lacking the confidence and think he will stop doing it if I don't reward him....but I need to consider this.The dog trainer is going to come out with me for a walk in about a week to 10 days so i know she will tell me if I am over rewarding and hopefully help me with it. [/quote] Not everyone believes the gambling effect. I have no clue myself, but the trainer I'm working with doesn't, so I go along with that. I do still reduce treats for things with a long duration, in that in any given situation I decide what I'm going to pay for. So if he is walking nicely, but could be in a better position, I'll pay for the better position, and so on. But I always pay at the end of an exercise - so I always pay for a good retrieve for example, I always pay for a recall, and so on. Not always with food though.
Re: Back to School For Us! It sounds like you are both making loads of really positive progress Angela. ;D I was like you were, uneasy about meeting other dogs and in our case people, until I had a strategy that worked with my dogs and kept them mostly calm. :. Now I'm disappointed if we don't meet something on a walk so we can practise. Keep us updated on the lessons so I can pick up tips. ;D
Re: Back to School For Us! Well done! Great to hear you are feeling more relaxed and in charge about it all, that makes such a difference, I think.
Re: Back to School For Us! All of this is good progress Angela . Sounds like Dexter is learning quickly
Re: Back to School For Us! Great news Angela, relaxing is the key then the rest will follow How we feel translates down the lead and affects the dog. x
Re: Back to School For Us! [quote author=Dexter link=topic=7808.msg113297#msg113297 date=1411909347] what I was finding was he could walk nicely on a loose lead ( give or take the first few minutes settling down being excited to be out) for 50mins -1 hour....then he starts getting sloppy ( probably bored) and yo yoing!so the last 20/30 mins could be a bit of an ordeal.....pulling to sniff [/quote] I forgot to say...there is no way that Charlie could do over an hour of loose lead - or anything like it - with no sniffing or peeing etc. so that sound pretty impressive to me.
