Experience with Cartrophen

Discussion in 'Labrador Health' started by JulieT, Apr 3, 2016.

  1. JulieT

    JulieT Registered Users

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    A while ago now, Charlie was limping on his front leg, we rested him and he had a course of Cartrophen injections. I've been videoing his gait everyday, and have videos from both before he was limping, and before he had the Cartrophen, through the treatment to now.

    It's time for Charlie's assessment of how he is doing, and he is going to the vet's tomorrow and the physio later in the week.

    My assessment is that he has returned back to how he was before whatever it was that made him limp. This isn't perfect, but is basically fine. But in the period between week 5 after the Cartrophen injection and now (which would be week 10) he has been better than 'fine', almost perfect.

    So one of the things I'll be asking the vet is whether Charlie would benefit from a monthly injection. I know lots of people do this, I think @Oberon has experience of this regime. Only, there is nothing from the maker of the drug about this monthly frequency, and there isn't much about the effects of long term use (although all there is seems to indicate a very safe drug).

    I've emailed to ask for more information, of course. And my vet is very good and will be able to advise. I'd still like to hear from any owners that have used Cartrophen long term, and what frequency the 4 week injections were given, vs monthly 'booster' injections if anyone has any relevant experience?
     
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  2. Oberon

    Oberon Supporting Member Forum Supporter

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    I have a bottle of Cartrophen/Pentosan at home and it does say on the packaging that the dose is a course of 4 x once weekly injections, every 6 months. But my vet has prescribed one round of 4 x once weekly followed by one injection every 4 weeks (this is for a horse but the same regime was prescribed for our old dog) for life. I can't say why though, other than that being the common regime here. I need to buy another bottle soon so I'll ask about the regime and what the evidence is for 1 monthly maintenance doses rather than the 4 x weekly every 6 months.
     
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  3. Snowshoe

    Snowshoe Registered Users

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    I'm an enthusiastic supporter of Cartrophen Vet. I've used it on two dogs and one cat and it's a miracle. The booster rate is individual and depends partly on why it's being given and partly on the pain tolerance of the individual animal. With ours we watched till signs of limping returned and then boostered. Subsequent boosters would then be a bit sooner, to prevent any return of pain.

    My dosing instructions were once a week for four weeks to load, then as needed. The once a week for four weeks was not repeated. I got pre-loaded syringes and did the injections at home, a god send for the cat in particular who got a booster every two weeks.
     
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  4. JulieT

    JulieT Registered Users

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    Well, I don't know about it being a miracle drug. :) I was a bit suspicious of it - there isn't a great deal of information about how it works, and all the studies demonstrating it works (of which there are many) mainly seem paid for by the maker of the drug.

    I'm also not all that keen on the varying dosing regimes that seem somewhat random. And there is no real explanation of why the effects (supposedly) last a year in some cases etc.

    It just seems awfully vague to me.

    But, over the time period predicted by the data, almost exactly, my dog showed a definite improvement. My vet has offered to have another vet look at the videos without knowing what he is looking for, if that would help....I'm not sure I need him to do that, really. I think the improvement is obvious.

    I don't know though whether the period of rest without the drug would have had exactly the same effect. I'm not prepared to risk it though, if I've found something that helps my dog, then I want him to have it. :rolleyes: Unless it's dangerous to do so, but there is no indication it is problematic.
     
  5. JulieT

    JulieT Registered Users

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    Actually, there is a good reason to have a vet look at the videos - I will be biased. Despite the fact I claim to be suspicious of the drug, my desire to want to see an improvement in my dog probably overrides that, and wipes out my ability to make an objective assessment.
     
  6. Stacia

    Stacia Registered Users

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    It didn't help my German Pointer one bit! I would tend not to give medication unless it is really needed. If you want to be objective, why not leave it and see what happens, if Charlie becomes lame again, then you will know it was effective. I don't think leaving it off for your experiment would harm Charlie as he was only slightly lame?
     
  7. JulieT

    JulieT Registered Users

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    Well, I'm just back from the vet, and he doesn't recommend more Cartrophen anyway.

    I think there are mixed views, @Stacia - some people think Cartrophen is useful as a sort of 'preventative' thing, that acts before any damage is done. My vet doesn't think this (he isn't sure, because there isn't any data on it, but it's not how he tends to give the drug).

    He also said the monthly 'booster' injections is a 'off label' dose that has developed by those using the drug, and become relatively common place because that's how people have found the drug to be effective, but it's not something that the manufacturer of the drug recommends as a regime.

    So, all in all, we going to continue as we are, with nothing, and Charlie will have another review in a couple of months and if we think he needs it, we'll go with the repeat of the 4 injections anyway.
     
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  8. Dexter

    Dexter Moderator Forum Supporter

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    Good luck with his checkup and hope you come away happy with the meds situation.I know Charlie likes the vets and that he will be much admired ! X
     
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  9. David

    David Registered Users

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    I'm 5 months into this after a dose of 4 injections in August. It's worked very well so far. My vet reckons it works in a proportion of dogs and also tends to go in and out of fashion a bit. Lady is a completely limp free zone since having the injections and the twinges of intense elbow pain she was experiencing when pulling tight turns have not re-emerged since the treatment. Vet suggested a repeat dose after a year but to bring her back earlier if necessary.
     
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  10. JulieT

    JulieT Registered Users

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    I do have to say, there is another reason why people might use the drug on a monthly basis - the cost!

    I had to buy a bottle, which is in the vet's fridge with Charlie's name on it. There is enough in the bottle for 10 injections. But it says "use within 3 months of opening". So I could use it now in monthly injections but if Charlie has 3 x 4 injections up to 3 times a year (4 months apart) I'll need to buy a new bottle and discard the rest as it'll be out of date!
     
  11. JulieT

    JulieT Registered Users

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    He does! Quite unbelievable, really, and probably a credit to my vet - after all the x-rays, operations etc. he still greets the vet like a long lost friend (every time....:rolleyes:) and gallops enthusiastically into the examination room.
     
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  12. bbrown

    bbrown Moderator Forum Supporter

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    Also a credit to Charlies temperament :inlove:
     
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  13. Oberon

    Oberon Supporting Member Forum Supporter

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    So I just picked up a bottle of Pentosan/Cartrophen from my horse vet. She had a final year vet student with her so we all had a chat about dosing dogs. Apparently the contemporary practice here with dogs is very much to tailor it to the individual dog - so, some have the loading dose (4 x 1 weekly) every 6 months, some every 12 months, some have the loading dose then 1 shot every month (what my horse is on) or every 6 weeks, some have one shot only every year. They don't go by the book. The regime is determined by how severe the arthritis is and by the dog's response to the drug.

    In my horse's case we are going to re-do the loading dose. He last had this 12 months ago and has had a shot every month since then. But I think that he has regressed a little, so we are going to see if another loading dose of 4 x weekly shots helps.
     
  14. JulieT

    JulieT Registered Users

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    That's very interesting, and very timely! I took Charlie back down to the vet last night and we decided to do another course of 4 injections for him. I have been monitoring him very closely and he is now not as good - he is fine, ok, but his gait is definitely stiff at the front.

    I'll talk to the vet about whether there should be monthly boosters after that.
     
  15. JulieT

    JulieT Registered Users

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    By the way, Charlie had been a bit stiff all week but when we got to the vet he was moving perfectly. The vet gave me a very straight look and said 'your dog is walking and trotting perfectly' - but I just pulled out my records from over the last month... I will always do this monitoring, without it my dog would not be getting treatment I really think he needs.
     
  16. Stacia

    Stacia Registered Users

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    But is Cartrophen the right answer? I am always reluctant to introduce medication unless it is really necessary. Maybe he just needs physio? Just thinking out loud.....
     
  17. Oberon

    Oberon Supporting Member Forum Supporter

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    Hope our respective boys loosen up after their boosters :)
     
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  18. JulieT

    JulieT Registered Users

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    Charlie has arthritis. Which is sad in a 3 year old dog, but there we are, and although the changes can't be seen on x-rays yet, it is there - there is no doubt about it. It's a progressive disease that will only get worse, not better. It is likely that he has arthritic changes in all 4 legs (the front from a change of gait, which is why I despair that people don't take this risk more seriously in the mad devices they use on dogs! :rolleyes:).

    His muscle tone is great (considering everything, it is not as good as a dog in good condition that hasn't had his problems, but still better than many a pet Labrador). Physio wouldn't help him, it wouldn't build his muscles up any further than they are already, and it can't substitute for him exercising freely to maintain that muscle tone.

    Cartrophen seems a very safe drug. So far, after keeping pretty meticulous records, it seems allows him to exercise more freely, and keeps him free of discomfort. Plus, there is a possibility that it might slow the progression of a disease that will probably shorten my dog's life.

    Bring on the drugs, I say....
     
  19. Stacia

    Stacia Registered Users

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    Sorry to read Charlie has arthritis. I was told Drift had arthritis in his elbow joint which was fractured and then screwed and pinned, the x-ray was taken at 8 months old (he fractured it at 16 weeks) and I was told the arthritis would get worse. He had to have an x-ray just before he was 10 years old, as he was lame on that leg and I thought the worst had happened, the x-ray showed no arthritis in the elbow but in his paw. Some laser therapy seems to have eased that considerably. I hope the same can be for Charlie and that it will get no worse. Incidentally, the x-ray at 10 months was taken at a referral hospital in Birmingham, not your everyday vet!
     
  20. JulieT

    JulieT Registered Users

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    Drift probably does have arthritis, but if there are still no arthritic changes evident on an x-ray at 10 years old, you've done amazingly well! :) I can still hope for that outcome. It's possible that Charlie will stabilise as he is, won't get worse (very quickly), and live a long a pain free life. It's still possible! :) There are no arthritic changes evident on an x-ray for Charlie, a CT scan shows very minor changes. I can still hope these won't get any worse.
     

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