How to respond?

Discussion in 'Labrador Training' started by Celin, Oct 20, 2016.

  1. Celin

    Celin Registered Users

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    My, now almost 8 month old boy is challenging me when he doesn't get what he wants. Today he decided to tear up the hall runner. I didn't yell or grab at him as he tends to get too excited, so instead I went to straighten out the rug and call him off. He laid on top of the part he wanted and put the hair up on his back and snapped at me. He made contact with my hand and now I have a new hole in my hand. We have worked on bite inhibition since he was 8 weeks but when he is excited he bites hard.
    I have no idea how to respond when this is happening. Leaving the room means losing my carpet or whatever he has and wants. It can be anything or the other day it was my cat that he cornered and I had to step in and get the cat to safety. Again, he came for me as I was trying to get him away. My hopes for having one last love of my life dog has faded and now I just don't want to get bitten on a daily basis.
     
  2. Snowshoe

    Snowshoe Registered Users

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    Dogs do play fight, and bite, just like human boys do. Well I guess the humans don't bite, I hope. Dogs can get overly ramped up and go too far with us. Hair (hackles) raised on the back can be from excitement, apprehension, fear, or aggression. So, if you are worried this is aggression I suggest calling in a behavourist to observe and assess both of you and how you interact.

    If you want to go with building teenage hormones (assuming he's intact) and play then I assume further this is the first bite and I think I might Vet and get vision tested. When my sister's dog bit a small child on the face one thing her Vet checked was vision, saying when dogs snap in fun or in warning they don't usually mean to make contact at first and are mostly exceptionally good at judging distance and don't actually bite.

    You can practice LEAVE IT, DROP It and GIVE. Most dogs will take something we don't want them to. If it's dangerous to them or precious to me I'd do exactly as you did and take it back, however none of mine have bitten me, not even in play. I've never had a die-hard chewer so many times I just let them have the sock or whatever. When they get bored, because I'm not interacting, I ask them to give it to me. Later on I insist they bring it to me and then give. Big rewards both times. Then, yes, they do just take stuff to get a reaction out of me and since they don't chew I either ignore them entirely or I oblige and we play chase. Sorry for being long winded but this how I handled the taking stuff.

    My dog still once in a while pesters a cat and again I use the LEAVE IT. He doesn't hurt them, acutally when they get fed up they hurt him, he got a probably well deserved swat this morning that caused him to yelp. At 8 months though, even though he was just playing, he was too rough with the cats and I intervened. I can't tell if when you did that your dog decided to continue the play with you as the target or not. Either way it's undesirable behaviour on his part. Did you take any kind of obedience classes with him? Classes train you and your dog but they also help establish a bond and help to place you in the position of benevolent Boss, who dispenses play and treats as earned and at your time, not the dog's. Good luck, I hope this is just misdirected play that is too rough for you.

    ETA: How much exercise does he get? Adequate exercise can help take some of the starch out. Along with training classes which work out the brain and can be just as tiring.
     
  3. Emily_BabbelHund

    Emily_BabbelHund Longest on the Forum without an actual dog

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    This makes me so sad and I just want to send you a big hug. :hug:

    Other people (@Snowshoe above) will give you the good training advice. I just wanted to say I remember feeling this way myself. Not about the biting because that wasn't my issue, but about other seemingly insurmountable behavioral issues. There's a reason most dogs get dumped at the shelter aged 8-18 months. They can be royal pains in the backsides at that age, even if they are just normal teenagers - sounds like you've had one or more dogs already, so you know this down deep (past the new bite marks). I've said it before, but I can well remember a good year of my last dog's life starting at about 10 months old where I thought every day, "Good god, I've got another 12 years of this?" Now I'd give just about anything to have that pain-in-the-backside dog back, because he turned out amazing. I hope you and your boy get on the good road soon too.
     
  4. Celin

    Celin Registered Users

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    I don't think he gets enough fun although I am not sure there is enough fun. He gets three nice walks a day, a couple outside recall fun lessons, with winter coming this is going to get harder. Inside short training times with rewards, praise, Lots of treat rewards as that is what he responds to. He and I just sit outside where he can poke around but that usually ends up with holes being dug or bushes destroyed. He and I have been training since the day he came home. I don't mean every second. We have had lots of just belly rub time too. I am home almost all the time so he gets attention. We did puppy classes and he is in basic obedience now. I love this dog and am doing the best for him. We are practicing leave it and he is good when it is training. He is smart and a bully.

    I did have a dog behaviorist come who we also train with. She said he is very immature and rowdy. We are working on focus exercises and he can do it fine while we are doing it but then it doesn't carry over to any part of his "real life" This morning he got though the baby gate and was tearing around the room but then he starts snapping at me on every round of zoomies. This wasn't fun when he was 3 months and it is way less fun now.

    I talked to a lab owner with a 2.5 year old. He dog is challenging her when he wants to do stuff she doesn't want and I don't want to be in that position. She is getting an e collar. I am NOT. I am just saying I am surprised when I asked on Facebook, how some lab owners are doing with stopping their dog from pulling so much, the standard response was, Oh we use an e collar. Even if it works what do you do when you don't have a remote control in your hand? I don't need him to do tricks. I just want a nice dog to pal around with.

    My husband, who is way more patient than me, if ready to leave us both. This was my idea and a much longed for dog. I expected, chewing, walks, destruction on some scale, playing, training, expense. Looked forward, mostly, to all that. But lunging and biting at 75 pounds was not on my radar. Sorry, just whining now but I am depressed with how this is turning out and I can't say all this to my DH.
     
  5. Joy

    Joy Registered Users

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    I too felt so sad reading your post. I believe you can find a way through this and end up with that lovely dog you wanted.
    It sounds as if you're really trying hard with reward based methods so maybe just need a little help.There are good resources on the main site (thelabradorsite.com) and also have a look at kikopup on YouTube.

    It's great that you're taking your dog out three times a day, but perhaps you could make a plan so they are more productive walks. I don't think you're in the UK are you? I know in many other countries it's harder to find places for off-lead exercise, so some things that I'd do on a walk you might have to do in the garden.

    Play - teach him games like tug. The tug is exciting but not super-rough and after just say 30 seconds you ask for a release. To start with you'll need to offer food (and you do need really delicious food at first!) to get the release but later it becomes part of the game, and adds to the excitement, because as soon as he releases and sits for a split second you say 'play' and start the game again.
    You could teach him to retrieve. When I had spaniels they were ball mad, but Molly prefers other objects for fetch. We do use a soft ball for catch, so you could try that too.

    These games aren't just to tire out your dog but to build your relationship and get him to see you as a rewarding person.

    I think you do need to give yourself a break too, so perhaps use a crate or pen or create an area where there's nothing he can damage so that you can unwind. Do you use kongs or rawhide bones to keep him occupied? Maybe consider getting him to wear a harness and short lead around the house so you've got something to grab if things get difficult.

    I know you probably don't feel like it if he's being a monster but stroking, slowly and rhythmically can be calming.

    Well done on not going down the ecollar route - dreadful things! I do hope things get easier for you soon.
     
  6. Celin

    Celin Registered Users

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    Thanks Joy. I mean thanks to everyone who responds, and thanks Emily for the hug. I need one! :-/ When he is calm I sit on the floor with him and do the doggie massage and he has so many times when he is just fine and I get to love on him. Today he has had two frozen kongs, a bully stick and he has a big bone I rub with peanut butter and he knaws. So we have that covered I think.

    My husband and I took him out tonight to do some recall off leash with treats and throwing the ball. We have lots of land to take him on and walk off leash but we let him drag the leash and bring him back quickly with treats. He doesn't really care about the ball or retrieving at all actually but he will chase it a bit. So we throw the ball a few times and call him back with a bit of hot dog, Then he scents a deer and off he went. OMG, calling him, throwing treats, chasing after him in the wet brush and woods but trying to not appear to be chasing him...I just thought, and thats how we lost our dog. Finally he found a pile of deer poop and while he was snacking I grabbed the darn dog!

    I am hoping some of this is sinking in and as he matures it will improve but lately he is worse not better so I come here to vent and help. I have had Chesapeake's for the last 30 years. I thought, I would go back to my childhood labs as I remember them as being easier than Chessie's who I have loved and done well training but I am getting older and wasn't sure i was up to another Chessie. That was a mistake I guess but I love this boy and I feel I am doing something wrong with him. I don't know what it is.
     
  7. Boogie

    Boogie Supporting Member Forum Supporter

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  8. Pilatelover

    Pilatelover Registered Users

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    @Celin I know it's so difficult, it's easy to say it will get easier but it will. You have been given loads of good advice and Id definitely get Pippa's book. I have found it invaluable.

    Your post about others using an e collar has made me so sad, well done for not going down that route it is often difficult to stand your ground and go about training, when others around you are doing things a different way. I have a couple of dog owners who live a few streets away, who are so critical of positive training and have been very unpleasant to me.
     
  9. JulieT

    JulieT Registered Users

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    You've had some great advice already. It does get a lot easier, honestly.

    A couple of times you've mentioned a dog 'challenging' a human. It isn't like this, you know. :) It isn't about hierarchy, or pecking order or a dog challenging authority. It's just a young dog bursting with energy and who hasn't yet learnt how to behave. He isn't challenging you when he won't stop chewing the hall runner. He just wants to chew the hall runner. That's it. Nothing more. :)
     
  10. Joy

    Joy Registered Users

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    On the main site there's a section on training retrieve in small steps using a clicker. I did this with Molly when she was about 10 months old (and then retrained a sitting delivery, which I hadn't bothered with before, this summer) and it works. I used a dummy which Molly responded to better than a ball. She's also now quite keen on a hard plastic dumbbell that I introduced this summer. I think if your boy could be hooked on retrieving, or any other dog sport, it would tire his mind and get him focused on you.

    I was interested to hear you've always had Chessie as Molly is a cross - her mother was Chessie. Did you train them to retrieve?
     
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  11. UncleBob

    UncleBob Supporting Member Forum Supporter

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    Hang in there Celin, it does get better ;)

    I remember, when Harv was going through his teenage phase, somebody telling me that they like to think that all dogs have a certain amount of mischief in them and for most it is spread fairly evenly throughout their life, but for Labradors it is heavily front-loaded! They can be very hard work in the early stages but are well worth it in the long run. :)
     
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  12. Celin

    Celin Registered Users

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    Thanks i will look into that more. I appreciate it. He is so scent driven I think he would do like that kind of training and it would be fun. If we could just get someplace without me being pulled off my feet.
    Yesterday we had the best walk we have had since he came to me at 9 weeks, so 6 months! He always has his nose in the ground pulling forward to get to whatever is at the end of the scent trail, I guess. I do the treats and the stopping but He just waits while I stop and then lunges forward when we go again. But yesterday he "stole" a piece of cardboard and thought he has a great prize. So he carried it the whole way and walked nicely for 20 minutes. He had to hold his head up because of the cardboard :) It was wonderful and so funny. He is smart and gets bored with new things fast so this may not ever work again but I am going to try it!
    My Chessies loved retrieving and balls and Frisbees. Anything to go after. I never had to train that behavior and they want to please you. They have to know there is something in it for them :) and not really food, just that they will like it or get something fun later. I had a lovely boy who was a champion at 16 months. But showing wasn't for me once I learned more about it. We were just doing it for the experience. As always thanks everyone for the input! I have had a lot of big dog experience but this dog...AARRGGHH!!! :)
     

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