Only yellow, black and chocolate? !

Discussion in 'Labrador breeding & genetics' started by JaxnTrouble, May 25, 2016.

  1. Lucy

    Lucy Administrator Forum Supporter

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    I'm not sure about this.

    Any recessive gene can remain hidden for a very long time, depending upon how rare it is in the first place. You need both parents to have this rare gene, in order for it to be expressed. If only say 0.1% of the individuals had it, then the chances of them breeding with another individual who also had it would be tiny.

    This is how some very nasty recessive genetic disorders can go hidden for several generations in a family before expressing.

    In addition to the genetic side, the charcoal (dilute black) gene is also not always immediately easy for people who don't know what they are looking for to spot. Therefore there is I suppose a small possibility that charcoal dogs have been produced at certain times without people noticing anything amiss...
     
  2. editor

    editor Administrator

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    This is actually a topic very close to my heart and one that I have given a lot of thought to. For those who would like to know more about the downsides of purebreeding there is a mountain on information on the ICB website

    This is a good article http://www.instituteofcaninebiology...ew-of-extinction-risk-of-dog-breeds-in-the-uk
     
  3. Oberon

    Oberon Moderator Forum Supporter

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    Many recessive genes don't have an outwardly visible effect, or their actions are modified by other genes, or by environmental factors that impact on their expression. Dilute colour genes in dogs are not like that. They have a simple and direct action.

    Having said that, definitely it is true that the gene could have been around for a long time but present in one dose only in a small number of dogs, few of whom were used for breeding. But in the early days of the development of the Labrador the pool of breeding dogs would've been small and any clearly and readily expressed genes like the dilute gene would've been pretty likely to pop up, had they been there at the start. Just like the yellow gene - despite early breeders' attempts to get rid of it. I think it's at least safe to say that the dilution gene was introduced into the breed at a later time then the yellow gene. Just my view based on how I have reasoned it out for myself :)
     
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  4. Nade

    Nade Registered Users

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    This is just one more conformation from where the silvers come, as well as the disease. I do not know how rare it is for silvers, but I see more and more of it.
     
  5. editor

    editor Administrator

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    Its in other breeds with the dilute gene too, it is linked to the double D gene rather than a specific breed

    Interestingly, it is claimed that there was Chesapeake Bay Retriever ancestry in early labs, and one theory is that the dilute gene came from them. Unless we can get a definitive gene test though, its all going to be speculation :)
     
  6. JaxnTrouble

    JaxnTrouble Registered Users

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    No science behind my thinking , just personal opinion . I need more research before I post my theory...
     
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  7. SueNZ

    SueNZ Registered Users

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    My girl is a Champagne yellow, eebbdd, and even though there are only a dilute few Labradors in NZ, I have found that price-wise they are on a par with any responsible breeder's pups of any breed who health test for as many possible problems as tests are available, and considerably less than many of the fashionable breeds and even the 'designer' cross breeds with no health tests at all!

    I think it is a case of buyer beware, but then we might just be lucky here in NZ that these beautiful dogs are not overpriced because of their so called rarity and their responsible breeder is doing a great job and not out to make a quick buck because of their rarity. No we can't register them, even though their American bred parents are registered over there, but they are being used for purposes that don't need papers-hunting, visiting the sick and elderly, obedience and in my girls' case we are working our way up Canine Good Citizen , having achieved Foundation and Bronze so far.:)
     
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  8. Ski-Patroller

    Ski-Patroller Cooper, Terminally Cute Forum Supporter

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    Interesting. My understanding was that Chesapeake Bay Retrievers were developed from Labs and some other breeds to make a harder, more protective dog.
     

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