Re: Tardak- temporary chemical castration log.. Looks like the Tardak is having an effect on Casper. Glad you had such a positive walk with both dogs Kate despite the weather. Are you planning to expose Benson to a bitch in season when you think the Tardak is working ? How Harley? How ? ;D
Re: Tardak- temporary chemical castration log.. Harley dived head first into a mud puddle to retrieve her ball after she dropped it in there.....she done it 3 times in a row :
Re: Tardak- temporary chemical castration log.. Day 7 - not such a good walk...Bensons 3rd walk of the day...and total exercise today is around 2.5 hours...20mins in the morning across our fields, an hour midday (dog walker) and an hour tonight. He is still bouncing of the walls! : Casper bless him was very good...until he ran off after a cyclist...I waited...he came back...spotted a jogger then took off in the other direction! sigh...it was very obvious he was happy, not stressed but having fun..both jogger and cyclist weren't concerned..some small consolation I guess. as I was mortified! He is definitely improving regard running off after other dogs though. Benson..I really don't know what to do with him, distracted again, and to cap it all, decided he would start mounting dogs....in this case a 14 month old entire Bernese mountain dog.. : :
Re: Tardak- temporary chemical castration log.. Well the Tardak should've kicked in by now shouldn't it ? Is it guaranteed to suppress the natural urges of an entire male ? (Thought I worded that quite politely ;D ) If it is and it doesn't appear to be making a difference to Benson would castration ? I guess that was what you were trying to find out. I'm not being much help really sorry. It's not unheard of for castrated dogs to mount others. The distracted behaviour and bouncing off the walls isn't unusual for a young dog either. :-\ Did the vet tell you what you could expect might happen ?
Re: Tardak- temporary chemical castration log.. [quote author=Jen link=topic=9925.msg145602#msg145602 date=1424808014] Well the Tardak should've kicked in by now shouldn't it ? Is it guaranteed to suppress the natural urges of an entire male ? (Thought I worded that quite politely ;D ) If it is and it doesn't appear to be making a difference to Benson would castration ? I guess that was what you were trying to find out. I'm not being much help really sorry. It's not unheard of for castrated dogs to mount others. The distracted behaviour and bouncing off the walls isn't unusual for a young dog either. :-\ Did the vet tell you what you could expect might happen ? [/quote] The Tardak should've kicked in by now...his normal state is bouncing off walls, I am sure I will miss it in a few years....he is conked out now on a scruffy half chewed piece of vet bed now, and doubt he won't budge until his late night walk I dont think Tarkak is necessarily 100%, it works by adding hormones to mask testosterone, and they do recommend a second dose at 8 days if there is no significant effect. suprelorin implant works differently, flooding the system with testosterone which sends a signal to stop production, there is however quite a flux initially, at around 2 weeks which can cause problems, plus the length of time the implant is effective is so much like a castration I wonder what the point is? Something to consider, and will be popping into the vets later this week for a another consult. Going back to his behaviour, generally on his walks he is not as distracted as he was today, there were 3 bitches who we know are not spayed on the common tonight, and one of those is due now, but I can't go round suspecting every entire female is in heat.. :-[ Positives..Benson was good on lead, but anything else was a bit difficult for him. So we kept things very simple. We are going to change our walking schedules to allow for more time walking the dogs together meaning longer and earlier walks with both myself and hubby, this means I can just walk Benson later on his own, without Casper, easier now the days are getting longer.
Re: Tardak- temporary chemical castration log.. Well, it's a bit puzzling, but very interesting! I do agree with Jen - either the Tardak isn't very effective (for some reason) or actually, Benson's mischief is less about being entire, and more about slow to grow up and become a bit more sensible perhaps? But it still is early days, maybe his behaviour is a mix of things, and you have to see how it plays out over a longer time...how long is the Tardak supposed to last again?
Re: Tardak- temporary chemical castration log.. Day 9 - - Now we are well into the optimal clinical effect period for Tardak, so I guess we just need a few in season bitches now! (did I just type that?? ;D ;D ) I have to say this mornings walk was lovely, both dogs were great, and Casper was a star, but more of that on another thread Does make me wonder if the flood of testosterone affects other dogs in the household?? Now Benson is boisterous, young, and not always the easiest of youngsters to gain his attention, which is why we often train Benson separately, or both together when hubby is around. The training walks are at a gruelling 6.30 am in the morning, both dogs are fresh and hubby helps out. Benson is hard work, his dad was hard work, even to experienced breeders. However what is impossible to manage is the running off and pulling after a bitch. The objective of this exercise is simply to remove this drive, prevent those behaviours becoming learned to enable us ( and Benson...) to focus on training. I don't know if we have made the right choice, only time will tell. The last week we have also kept things very simple for him, being aware of the changes that might be affecting him just now..and recently. In summary, we now need to test this effect..I am sure we will have lots of opportunities over the next 3 weeks. If he doesn't turn into a pulling machine....or run off....within the next 3 weeks... can assume it has been effective?The question for us is, is that enough time to really tell?
Re: Tardak- temporary chemical castration log.. I can totally sympathise with the pulling after a bitch or just the scent left behind I'm usually hold of two. : My friend has two bitches and although we don't walk with them in season they are still walked down our lane. S&S are very distracted and their behaviour alters for a good five weeks. They unfortunately don't come into season together they overlap. Then of course there's the random bitch in season scents that we come across. If it was me I'd be trying to find a bitch in season and really test the Tardak. My friends dogs finished their season mid January and since then S&S behaviour has been much easier. I don't think I'd assume that at some point in three weeks we'd come across a bitch in season or its scent because we haven't for about 5 or 6 weeks.
Re: Tardak- temporary chemical castration log.. [quote author=Jen link=topic=9925.msg146041#msg146041 date=1424944602] If it was me I'd be trying to find a bitch in season and really test the Tardak. My friends dogs finished their season mid January and since then S&S behaviour has been much easier. I don't think I'd assume that at some point in three weeks we'd come across a bitch in season or its scent because we haven't for about 5 or 6 weeks. [/quote] Yes and that is something we are gong to have to think about, possibly consider another injection. I do have a friend down the road...who has a black working bitch, great pedigree and a beautiful girl, who is due soon.. Actually the owner has asked if she can put Benson to stud.. : Would be a very interesting combination...pretty sure though she was joking at the time! ;D
Re: Tardak- temporary chemical castration log.. I think I'd want to know that an in season bitch had been of little interest to him aswell otherwise you'll always be wondering. If it was me I'd also have a second injection to extend the time period so I had enough information. Will your friend think it's strange if you walk past their door twice a day for the next few weeks ;D
Re: Tardak- temporary chemical castration log.. [quote author=bbrown link=topic=9925.msg146056#msg146056 date=1424947090] I think I'd want to know that an in season bitch had been of little interest to him aswell otherwise you'll always be wondering. If it was me I'd also have a second injection to extend the time period so I had enough information. Will your friend think it's strange if you walk past their door twice a day for the next few weeks ;D [/quote] Can't just walk past her door...she lives in a huge manor house. plus estate..... : I know Sally had pups last September, will pop in this weekend and ask about her seasons...oddly Sally had 3 chocolate pups, and no- one was really sure how that happened, I know there are just 3 fields between us...oh lord........
Re: Tardak- temporary chemical castration log.. [quote author=bbrown link=topic=9925.msg146060#msg146060 date=1424948118] maybe Benson already knows the way [/quote] err....last summer we were in there lots of times...the dogs would just play together in their gardens....I would collect my poultry essentials and chat whilst Sally and Benson played... http://anniehallspoultry.co.uk/blogs/news/16851371-puppies-born Maybe I shouldn't pop down... : ???
Re: Tardak- temporary chemical castration log.. Oh Benson! Have you been a cheeky boy? I hope this starts to all come together for you some time soon Kate. Was imagining you putting an add in the newsagent window.....in season bitch required for friendly walks with boisterous uncastrated male All joking aside....I know this is a big deal for you and very interesting information you are sharing with us. I really do hope you get some answers rather than still be left hanging after this. Don't want to you still not knowing the right answer for your lovely boy x
Re: Tardak- temporary chemical castration log.. I doubt if Benson had anything really to do with them...but I did have a moment wondering! ;D I think it really does need a bitch in season to test the effectiveness. Although, I do think it is working. We haven't since day 5./6..had any problems. In the early days I think he was still rather under the influence of the 2 encounters he had experienced, in a short space of time, with Benson it takes him a few days to calm down. We will probably give him another injection, to give a better time frame then leave him for a bit, to get a good after comparison. Management wise...I really want to get him to 2 years. he is still too young at the moment. At that point his hormones should naturally fall to a more normal level, and he will also be that little bit older. I am getting quite good at spotting the "look" when Benson has just picked up a scent, other clues too, such as whining, and pulling, in future, will just avoid that area for a week or so. Heading into Spring, the days are longer and the dogs have more training opportunities to train or just mooch around here.
Re: Tardak- temporary chemical castration log.. This is a little beside the main point but I was curious. What is your motivation for getting to 2 years pre castration? Routinely its an op done from 6 months of age. I think 6 months is a bit young really but many people have it done at that age. I think their is obvious benefit in nervous dogs to allowing longer than 6 months to allow confidence to build and issues to be worked through. I assume part of your reasoning is wanting him to fully mature which I think you'll be there pretty much looks wise already. Have you got serious aspirations of breeding? I only ask because they are negatives health wise to leaving dogs entire including testicular cancers and prostate disease later in life. Some of the negatives can be avoided like potential weight gain can be easily managed through tweaking diet post neutering. There is some newer research about joint disease and other cancers but none of that currently would be enough to stop me recommending neutering. I'm probably just thinking out loud by im genuinely interested. Also enjoying his thread as I've not used tardak on a patient yet so it's all great information.
Re: Tardak- temporary chemical castration log.. Alex if you're on Facebook there's a group called Against the routine neutering of dogs. There are links to quite a few studies as well as general articles. There may be some stuff in there you haven't come across before......
Re: Tardak- temporary chemical castration log.. Not meaning to cause offence, but I never trust facebook to provide scientific articles but I will certainly go and have a look. You learn quickly that anyone can write a paper and you can make data prove any point you would like it to really. My degree has taught me to read all research with a very critical eye and prior to graduation not one single professor or clinician has started to talk of a neutering revolution. Whilst I have not read vast amounts of papers on these issues, I do read my weekly professional magazine which keeps me up to date on current research and new developments in veterinary medicine. I am yet to read anything to change my opinion that neutering, is on the whole, a sensible practice. I do see the day to day results of not neutering though, whether it be prostatic hyperplasia, testicular or mammary tumours, pyometra, misalliances, complications of misguided breeding, road traffic accidents when animals have done a runner etc etc. I am yet to see a case where I can say neutering is totally responsible for the animals issues, except maybe a few bitches with urinary incontinence. If people have no problems with the management of their entire pet then that's great, and I'm not against peoples right to choose what to do for their pet, but it doesn't rule out health problems later in life like reproductive cancers. I think it's really sensible not to assume castration will fix undesirable behaviour, but in the long run would castration be such a bad thing as it may help a little (or a lot) with behaviour? I definitely am not in favour of routinely castrating at 6 months of age in dogs, as nervous aggression is a very real problem. I think it should be on a case by case basis but by a year old I would be comfortable castrating most dogs. Bitches before first season provides the best chance of minimising mammary cancers, proper scientific paper widely accepted by scientists, but I would naturally be inclined to allow larger breeds to mature further than 6 months before spaying. I think it's all a really interesting subject, but the internet has a lot to answer for and a lot of misinformation is available. Currently my stance is the benefits or neutering far outweigh the negatives (based on science and clinical experience), but that's not to say in 20 years the scientific community will not have changed it's mind. I've now gone a bit off point from the thread but all I meant to kind of question was, what was deterring Kate specifically from neutering Benson? Because if there is a slight response to Tardak, it is then difficult to ascertain how effective castration would be (partial, 50%, 100%?), but what is the perceived harm of castrating in the hope, and I stress hope not knowledge, that it may have at least a mild positive effect on Benson's behaviour?
Re: Tardak- temporary chemical castration log.. It is a bit much to suggest that people can't look at research and discuss it on the internet. Lots of us have degrees, and PhDs, in scientific subjects and are well able to understand research. [quote author=A.Causer link=topic=9925.msg148672#msg148672 date=1426026659] I only ask because they are negatives health wise to leaving dogs entire including testicular cancers and prostate disease later in life. [/quote] Not all vets agree with this - my vet does not. It is not sufficient to say that some risks are removed without stating how high those risks are anyway, how effectively these problems may be treated if they arise, and what other risks may be created by castration. I do not believe the evidence is clear cut that the health benefits outweigh the downsides. At least the doubt is such that I can find vets, who I respect, who do not agree that the benefits outweigh the downsides.
Re: Tardak- temporary chemical castration log.. I agree with A.Causer. I can see nothing wrong with neutering an animal at a suitable age. Why keep a dog entire when he/she can not breed, it can cause unnecessary frustration and there are health benefits. I would certainly spay a bitch as I have seen too many very ill bitches with pyometra, some have died, far better to spay a young healthy dog, than an older and very sick dog. However, each to his own. We all do what we think is best for our own dogs.
