Why adolescent male being set upon by other male dogs?

I'm trying to do more one to one training and walking Cupar especially in busier places. Our walk today involved lots of recall , sit and stays. Loose lead walking is getting better. On part of the route dogs must be on a lead. As we practiced a walk to heel we were passing a house with a man strimming the grass, when a wee terrier came running straight at Cupar and attacked him. I was stunned. I actually lifted my foot to this dog . Poor Cupar was trying to fight back when the owner managed to grab his. He apologised and I did stay to talk all the time throwing bits of melon and cheese on the ground for Cupar. I really don't want another dog that has issues with dogs.

This is the second time a dog has actually attached itself to Cupar, both time terriers and males. The dog show we were at he growled at and was growled at by male dogs.

Why? Every male in the vicinity has it in for my poor boy. He's not a dog that gets too hyper around other dogs when playing . Cupar understands when they don't want to play and backs off. He's not fixated on dogs either. I have been patting myself on the back because of how he behaves around other off lead dogs. This though is different he's on lead and has no where to run.

I really need to know how to prevent this happening before I seriously damage some wee dog with , as one owner told me " small dog syndrome " heck just because I've got a labrador I can't use that excuse , so why are they?

 

I have a similar issue with Shadow; since he started adolescence, unfamiliar entire males tend to be quite nasty towards him. He's started to get a bit "get them first, before they get me" with some, so I am starting to just try to keep him out of those situations. Yesterday evening, a huge thing, I think a British bulldog cross Staffie, came belting towards us. I just let Willow get on with it and kept Shadow back. Some entire male dogs can make Willow nervous and she might snap at them if they overstep the boundaries, but I know the chances are they won't attack her - there's been nothing like that yet, except from DH's sister's Tibetan terrier, who is a nasty piece of work anyway.

So I sadly don't have any advice for you, but I'm following this with interest to hear any pearls of wisdom from the more experienced folk.

 

I've checked Cupar over and that dam dog actually bit him. More a scratch but still !

Fiona I'm just so glad that I didn't have both dogs. Cassie wouldn't have hesitated . I do like the description so accurate, quite nasty is what it is.

So far it's been smaller dogs, I think I would be hysterical if a bulldog sized dog came at him.

 

It was huge. One of broadest, most solid dogs I've ever seen. As soon as I saw him, I knew this could be trouble. He was wearing a muzzle - dangling around his neck. What the actual....?

I tried my damnedest to stay calm so the dogs didn't react to my tension, but it was very hard, given the situation.

Then his owner came over and hit him with his choke chain for not coming back when he called. I was disgusted. No wonder the dog won't come back if that's how you treat it!

Other than SIL's Tibetan, the situations we've had have been mainly all noise, but it's distressing for both sets of owners to hear that, especially when you don't know the other dog.

 

Oh heck! I'm a coward through and through and the fact that the poor dog got hit would have had me in panic mode. It is so sad staffies and bulldog breeds get the bad reputation because of owners like that.

I've never had an entire male before. My first dog was neutered early ( it was the early seventies and my mum thought he had distemper as he was foaming at the mouth and howling at the door. Turned out neighbours bitch was in season and my mum was not going to have anyone talk about her dog. So the snip he got) My next male I got at 18 months and I got him neutered immediately. Was told it would help with his behaviour. Ha! Ha! So Cupar is a new experience and having strange dogs attack him for just being there, is worrying.

 

I'm the same. All our family dogs until now have been neutered males. So, to have an entire male and a female is a bit of a learning experience

I know that, with most other dogs, it will just be a lot of bluster and noise, but it's not something I'm happy about unless I know the dog.

 

Sorry to hear of your bad experience. As long as it's just a terrier bothering him I wouldn't get too upset, if you can avoid it, as Cupar will soon be able to deal with it. With my old Bones, he was especially bothered by a very annoying and ill-behaved JRT who used to growl, bark and snap at him. Bones put up with this behaviour for some time, until the little dog went too far and really bit him one day. Bones went mad - grabbed the little dog by the head and just held him on the ground, snarling furiously. I was terrified - thought he was going to kill little Bobby, crush his head or something. I tried to stay calm, and just said 'put him DOWN Bones...' Eventually after much growling he let the little dog go, who was totally unharmed but shaken and very, very chastened... Ever after that, whenever he saw Bones he was very submissive, wriggling around, giving Bones little kisses, wagging his tail... RESULT! Bones loved it

A big dog running at you is a different kettle of fish and very scary indeed. Well done Fiona, sounds like you managed to stay calm in a pretty freaky situation.

 

We definitely have had this with Pongo. He is 18 months and entire. As he has reached adolescence he has started getting aggressive reactions from other dogs. He has even been bitten once (blood drawn on his ear). It has been a bit bewildering for Pongo, because he still just wants to play..... lots of puppy bows and submission, but he still gets snarled at. It doesn't help that he is so big, I'm sure it makes him look more intimidating (imagine Mike Tyson running towards you booming in a big deep voice "I want to play I want to play I want to play"). However, recently it has happened less often, and I have no idea whether this is because he is communicating better or whether his adolescent testosterone rush has calmed down and made him smell less threatening.... but it is better!
So I'd say hang in there, try to let him learn to sort it out for himself (although obviously try not to let him get really hurt!) and hopefully it will improve.
Let us know how it goes, I'd be really interested to hear!

 

I'm sorry I can't help much as Dexter is neutered and the only dog I can draw on for experience but just wanted to stop by to say sorry you've both had frights...A dog running towards me with a muzzle on would make me wary but a dog running towards you that obviously SHOULD have a muzzle on but hasn't would terrify me.Poor old Bones too....and lucky,lucky Bobby,sounds like he really learnt his lesson that day!x

 

I'm not too bothered by muzzled dogs. It shows the owner is being responsible. When we were in the UK, a muzzled Husky approach us when I was on my own with Shadow. It tried to go for him, but the muzzle did its job. The owner was mortified, but I tried to be gracious and commend her for being conscientious. We talked for a few minutes, while our dogs sat calmly in each other's company. I thought it was generally a positive encounter for everyone concerned. It would have been a terribly different situation had it not had a muzzle on, obviously.

I'm hoping that once Shadow is fully mature and his hormones settle down, he will be less of a target. Until then, I'm just trying to manage any situation that arises. I'm glad he has a couple of friends who are entire males, because it shows that not all of them are trying to beat him up!

 

I generally have a problem with male neutered dogs, not male intact dogs - I think this is in part about biology, but also relates to the standard of socialisation and training of neutered vs intact male dogs that I meet (plus possibly the effects of neutering but that's been much discussed before).

It is better now Charlie is older, but during Charlie's teenage months and really up until he was about 20 months we had problems with male neutered dogs. Not Charlie, he was never the aggressor, but we definitely encountered what seemed like aggressive male dog after male dog. This was, I think, in large part because of Charlie's high testosterone levels as a teenager but also I think a large number of pet dogs that are not well socialised to intact male dogs.

I had the added complication of a long rest period and isolation from other dogs with Charlie, so I took no chances and dealt with this "a project" going to quite extreme and time consuming lengths to make sure Charlie had lots of positive interactions with other male dogs, I aimed to make sure he had at least 5 positive interactions against each bad one. It felt like hard work at times.

At gundog training, all the male dogs were intact and whenever other intact male dogs have squared up to each other there (rarely, and not involving Charlie) the owners have been able to use cues to simply call their dogs away or interrupt them and there has never been any problems that I've seen.

In contrast, I was unable to keep attending the pet dog socialisation class I used to go to (a class that happened to have a high proportion of neutered male rescue dogs) because the neutered male dogs there were too reactive to Charlie - the instructors explained that the male dogs there didn't have a high enough level of socialisation to intact dogs, or enough training, for the owners to be sure of controlling them.

So I don't think it's about intact male dogs reacting to each other. Indeed, that's been the least of my problems noting that the intact male dogs I tend to meet are both well socialised and well trained. And my own intact male dog never reacts to another male, intact or neutered. I do think that a big part of it, in my area with the dogs I meet, might be in the pet dog world dogs are often not well socialised to intact male dogs.

It did get better over time. There was a marked improvement as Charlie got a bit older and his testosterone levels dropped.

 

I often look after my friend's intact male Lab, Zaba, who is two years old. I never have any trouble whatever of this nature. Maybe because he's a very submissive dog with other dogs? He's not unconfident and plays happily with dogs of all shapes and sizes, but any sign of trouble and he's over on his back or runs back to lean on my legs.

 

Yesterday's incident was Cupar on lead on part of a country estate. The houses are the estate workers. One of which was strimming the grass. Cupar never stood a chance. I keep him to heel when walking past people. This dog came racing out the garden straight at Cupar. We hadn't time to react , he went straight for the throat.

As for it being terriers doesn't make any difference. I'm fed up with hearing people with snarling and lunging on the lead terriers defend them. Yet when my labrador bitch reacts like that she's seen as dangerous. It doesn't matter what size of dog it is terriers have the same teeth as my labradors.

Cupar is not a submissive dog, but he's not aggressive either. He does retaliate when these dogs set upon him. I don't want another dog aggressive dog.

I am not sure whether any of these dogs were entire or not.

 

I am not sure whether it has much to do with whether a dog is entire of not..maybe more to do with breed, socialisation and environmental factors..ie previous negative encounters and how the owners react themselves in these situations. Poor Casper is a case in point, he used to run at other dogs, all guns blazing, stop 6 feet away and bark...that could be seen as very aggressive. It isn't he is just compelled to so this.

When we bump into 2 entire working black labs, with Benson, all three are entire, we just let them sort themselves out, there is a bit of stiff walking, hackles raised, lip curling then they ignore each other. Their owner is very laid back about it and relaxed, and so am I. I think in those situations it is perfectly normal. I don't think normal, socialised dogs always like each other, but in their case they said their piece and left it at that. Why waste energy in fighting?

The worst thing I saw was actually with our foster Dougal, we were on a narrow pathway, Benson ahead with me and Dougal (our foster) in his default position with Marcus behind. Two huge huskies coming towards me attacked Benson, it was horrid, then from behind Dougal rushed them, right into them snarling...they went into total submission and slunk behind their owner legs. Left me shaking somewhat. Luckily Benson wasn't hurt. Found out later those huskies are renowned for being aggressive. There again I really don't understand why people keep huskies or akitas as family pets.

 

Actually it seems to be quite the norm males which have matured sexually tends to be in conflict towards other males when they enter their territory or try to steal other females, the thing about territory is that males dog use to urinate to mark their territory, usually dominant one tends to do that and they also appear to be the most aggressive towards other males,

Beanwood husky are quite laid back dogs, if you happen to stumble upon these two husky it means that, maybe they lacked socialization, so maybe they were afraid and went for the attack first. While for Akita i'm not entirely sure but i heard/read somewhere that they were actually breed for fighting so you have to be kinda careful around these dogs

 

I really haven't found this to be true at all. I have had no problems with dog to dog aggression with any reasonably well socialised and trained intact male dog that I've met (a lot). I've met a lot of poorly socialised dogs with dog to dog aggression problems, but (probably because of where I live) those have been neutered males and sometimes bitches.

 

My two do not like huskies at all. There is something about them that makes mine very nervous, even at a great distance. Other than the one that went for Shadow, they haven't met one face-to-face, but a friend owns one and there are several others that work on the sleds here in the winter. When mine see them at a distance, they are very, very wary. I think it's been discussed before that they don't exhibit normal canine body language.

That aside, I can only really comment on my interactions with entire males. I don't think we've ever seen a castrated male here. It's the norm to have bitches spayed and leave the boys entire.

I'm not sure about the point about stealing their females - studies that have been done on groups of feral dogs show that they don't form social structures in the same way as wild dogs, and have free mating with no pack leaders. So, no dog "owns" a bitch. They may scrap over whose turn it is, but they're not trying to steal rights to a monogamous relationship with the bitch.

 

Peter Akitas are japanese hunting dogs, my only experience is with 2 that lived behind us, and two that are walked on our common, plus the breeder at the local boarding kennels. The two at our common are under the dog equivalent of a restraining order (on lead all the time) because they killed a dog. Our neighbour had two, one PTS for aggressive behaviour. The kennels down the road are loath the sell their puppies to families unless they are very experienced with the breed.
Whether the huskies were fearful or not is a mote point. I have a very reactive dog and work very hard at this, which is why I didn't bring him along on this particular walk which was in a very busy and popular location. I prefer to chose my battles! My point being that was the only time I have encountered any real aggression towards my dogs from other dogs.

 

snowbunny my bad i think i expressed my self in a poor way, i meant that from what i know they tend to enter into competition when it comes to females, but even than i'm not entirely sure.

Beanwood yup i already knew that they were japanese, are you sure you're not confusing them with the Shiba inu? I only know about Shiba Inu being hunting dogs , beside dog fighting used to be quite popular in japan and Akita Inu were bred for that reason at least that's what i read somewhere, i might be mistaken as well! Only the breed history will tell

 

I am hopeful that we may have passed the worst of Shadow being set upon by other male dogs. Maybe.

Yesterday evening, we came across a group of five dogs of various breeds and sized (from a Yorkie to a Great Dane!) playing together and having a marvellous time. I was immediately concerned that the males in the group would have issues with Shadow, so I popped him on his lead and started to walk away, but they called me back and insisted that their dogs never have issues with others. I explained the problem, so they brought over their entire males individually to meet him. They were all absolutely fine. A few minutes later, and they were bum-tucking around the field and stream with their new buddies! The firm favourite was a female boxer who was completely barmy. Brilliant fun

Today, we popped out at lunchtime to a BBQ with some friends, in a public area. I took the dogs for a stroll while J started cooking. A few minutes later, a dog bounded up to us. It was obviously a cross, but it seriously looked like a wolf - not even a Husky. I wonder if it was a wolfdog. Anyway, the owner was nowhere to be seen and as soon as I realised it was an entire male - with his hackles up - I got very, very worried. Again, though, no need for that. There was some sniffing, then Willow got bored and wandered off, leaving just the two boys and me, ready to step in. But they started playing within a minute or so, then my two carried on their game of ping-pong between me at the top of the hill and J at the bottom, with this scary-looking animal bounding along behind. Willow told him off when he got too close one time, and he backed off. Phew.

So, going from every single entire male without fail having a pop at Shadow, to having fun playtime with several strangers in the space of two days. It could just be chance, or it could signal a shift in something for the better.