Another post prompted me thinking about this. When we're on walks, I generally work on keeping W&S close to me, and not needing to be recalled. This is great, but it means there's not much in the way of training opportunity for the recall. If they do go off for whatever reason and I recall them, they get a good reward every time. On occasion, I'll do a recall after a sit/stay, but I don't want to mess up the stay, so it's only once in a blue moon. So, when I do retrieves with them, I've started blowing the recall whistle on the return, thinking I'm reinforcing the link between the whistle and running towards me, like you do in the initial stages of puppy recall. Now, though, I'm wondering if this may be doing more harm than good. Is the recall being diluted by the other behaviours, and the fact that they don't necessarily get a jackpot reward every time? Shadow's recall has failed a couple of times in recent weeks, so this is something I need to address again. I need to sit down and read Total Recall again, but I just don't have the time at the moment, so I'm "winging it". In the last few days, I've stopped throwing pine cones (his favourite thing) for more basic behaviours and I'm reserving them for recalls. I can manage a couple of short-range recalls each walk (maybe 20m) and I've noticed that his response has already become a lot snappier, now he's not getting to chase cones any other time. Back to the point: on walks, the recall whistle means he gets his favourite thing in the world - to chase. When I'm training, he does get to chase a ball for something really good, but for a bog-standard retrieve, he "just" gets food rewards (very tasty ones, mind, and he does love his food ... just not as much as a chase). Do you think that using the whistle on the return could therefore be detrimental to the recall, rather than enforcing it?
Why not reward the recall with a retrieve in the same way as all the others? That said, Charlie gets something for cured and uncued recalls, but nothing amazing day to day. I keep his recall sharp and fast by training it in drills - ping pong recall sometimes produces HIS PINK BOUNCY BALL! I only need to do that every couple of weeks or so. Sometimes I wonder if my dog spends all his waking hours hoping for a pink ball....
I don't use the recall whistle for a retrieve under normal circumstances. If I send a dog for one retrieve I expect her to return with it without any further cues. Retrieving is a package which includes the return and delivery and on a shoot day I may well be dealing with a different dog on a different retrieve when the first dog is returning. Don't know if that helps at all
Well, this is part of what I've been thinking, and why I didn't originally use the whistle. It should be a whole chain of behaviours with a single cue. I never had a problem with them not returning with the item; using the whistle was just something I thought might strengthen that association. Now I'm not so sure. Sorry, I'm being dim (too many hours spent in front of this bloomin' computer). What "others"? The full retrieve isn't as much of a reward as a simply chase of a ball or cone. I think Shadow still considers it to be work, although it's work he enjoys, it's not woohoo, play time, yeah! RUNRUNRUN! I play the elastic recall game during training sessions, because they absolutely adore the game and I love to watch them do it. They're so happy! But I wonder, again, whether this is reinforcing the whistle as a cue at all these days. They know the game so well that they would turn and run to me even if I didn't whistle. They have the anticipation of the "turn and bowl treat" even without me doing it.
The ping pong recall is a 'getting the behaviour' game so you associate your whistle with the whiplash turn at the end. If you have that whiplash turn when you blow your whistle normally, then the game has served its purpose. For Charlie, the ping pong recall is a massive, special treat and it serves to keep that whiplash turn at other times, he loves the game so very much. It's pretty carefully rationed though.
Maybe you should use the pine cone to reward the retrieve then? It seems to me that a retrieve is a much harder behaviour than a recall to be carried out in the same or even more challenging circumstances than the recall. So shouldn't your rewards be as high or higher? Particularly if Shadow doesn't find it a massive reward in itself?
Gotcha. Yes, whenever we do recalls outside of a formal retrieve, he gets a chase. If I let him chase something at the end of a retrieve, then I'm not just rewarding the recall, but the whole chain, which is why I reserve the ball for whenever that whole chain is above average - or a good attempt at something more challenging. To date, I've not really had any distractions when doing formal retrieve training. I find a quiet place to do it. They had no issue when we were in class, but that's still very much a controlled environment. So, yes, introducing more distractions when retrieving would also be a good idea. I will get a whiplash turn when they're not challenged by bigger distractions, so more proofing is in order. During the game, there is definitely a whiplash and definitely running at full pelt towards me - with a rather manic expression on their faces. It doesn't transfer massively to real life, though. Maybe I need to introduce more distractions whilst the game is being played. I've played it with people walking past, and dogs at a distance. The thing is, once they're absorbed in the game, the distractions aren't remotely interesting. It's a very different scenario to when they're already distracted. Hmmm, what if I use the game as a reward for a more challenging recall itself. Now, there's an idea....
I proofed my recall by moving recall games close to distractions. It seemed to work fine. Charlie's recall isn't perfect, but it's pretty good. I can't remember the last time it failed, anyway. I move the retrieve closer to distractions - but I do use my recall whistle on the retrieve return. Not because I'm reinforcing my recall whistle, but because I'm cuing the return. My 'normal' circumstances are not Pippa's - I'm not handling multiple dogs on a shoot day (one day, in the distant future.....maybe....). I sort of 'spend' my good recall on making sure Charlie executes that return, because that is his biggest weakness. Then I pay back into the recall bank with ping pong recall and his pink ball..... He gets his BLUE ball for a retrieve though....
OK, you've sold me. I need to buy a larger variety of balls (and similar, that won't roll down hills into oblivion when I have to train on the side of a mountain ).
I own balls that Charlie has never even touched. I collect special balls. Balls that I know would blow his furry mind....I search them out. If I go to a new town, I always do a quick search of the high street in case there is a shop selling an unusual ball.... Bit sad, but keeps me busy.
I don't usually use a whistle recall for a retrieve but I do use it when I practise lining drills to a food bowl - bit like the ping pong game - for some reason puppy dashes out grabs the food and then races back - so I add the whistle in and can reward easily with a ball chase or food just like a 'normal' recall.
