My little choccy thief!

Hi, I have a 6 month old choccy lab, Timber. He's gorgeous, we're completely smitten with him ever since we brought him home at 8 weeks old. He's mischievous, cheeky, exuberantly friendly all of which we love and are on the case for training him. He's doing well and he knows what to do but has lots of lapses, as we'd expect. BUT he has developed a new 'trick' which has only come with his growth - he steels whatever he can from the kitchen surfaces. He steels dish cloths, paper, plastic bottles, dusters, bags..... anything in his reach, even when we thought it was out of his reach. He never tries when we are in the room obviously and we try to leave everything out of reach so how do you deal with a problem when you never witness it? How do I make him understand what he is being told off for if I can't catch him at it? We hear him jump up if we're in the next room but as soon as he hears us coming he gets down. It's so frustrating because I can't continue to let him live in the kitchen on this basis, I need shares in disinfectant. Please, help us with any of your success stories

 

Hi and welcome to the forum. Timber is doing exactly what many dogs, not just Labradors do, and that is counter surf. The only solution is to have clear surfaces, if there is nothing there he can't take it. If there is something he "self-rewards" by reaching and taking it. Even if you seem him take something you shouldn't be telling him off but getting him to swap the item for something else which is much better and he has no understanding whatsoever why should be cross with him after the event.

 

Agree with Rosemary. Since bringing home two Labradors, I now have the tidiest kitchen in the world

 

Welcome Karen and Timber, what a great name! we are Hattie 8 years and our rescue boy Charlie 5 years. Yep you have to keep everything off the kitchen surfaces or Timber will have it and doesn't understand why he can't so telling him off is totally pointless. Charie still sometimes steal shoes and drags his blanket out of his bed, I ask him to "drop" and reward him with a good treat, hmmm maybe that's why he still does it Helen x

 

Timber is gorgeous!
Eric is a thief (when we are in the room too!) and as the others have said the only solution is to rid the worktops of everything!
Even the kids are learning that if it's left out it's like an invitation x

 

Arthur is a dab hand at stealing my shoes & slippers, I have had 2 very nice shoes chewed up - one from each pair, it does leave me with one left and one right but they don't match and are different heights! So now I make sure they are out of reach. His latest chew is a foot stool in the morning while waiting for me to get up (he wakes around 5am) and I feel the need to get soon after!

 

Hi and thank you everyone, I guess I'm going to have to clear my worktops! I know I can't tell him off for anything after the event, so haven't even gone down that road. I'd be very concerned about swapping him his ill gotten gains for something else, I'm sure he'd do it all the more. We've had several dogs before Timber but he's our 1st lab, we've always had Leonbergers, and whilst I realise all dog breeds are capable and do do this, it's just putting a bit of a damper on things. Steeling shoes and anything left laying about is fair game, I'm struggling with him invading the kitchen worktop and the fact he does it so clandestinely; you hear that little thud as he jumps down when he hears us coming which suggests he knows it's wrong. We'll keep going and we'll clear the tops and see what happens. Please understand though that we adore him!

 

No, a dog has no concept of right, wrong or guilt. What he does know is that he's been told off but doesn't understand why when he's doing what is natural to him which is why he tries to do it without being discovered. He won't steal more to gain a treat by doing a swap. If items are put away, a "Leave it" trained for items when you are around it is only for the rare items that you need a swap. The swap is of course very useful when out for walks as well, not just in the house.

 

I guess I'm a little "old school" about stealing. If I catch our pup in the act of taking something, I will definitely tell her "NO" (actually Unh Uh). I want her to learn it is a bad thing to do. I fI don't catch her in the act but she still has it, I'll tell her to drop it. If I just find the evidence, it's my bad and we just ignore it. We don't keep our counters or other surfaces clear, but Tilly learned not to take things from them and Cooper seems to be getting it better and better. When she does get into things, it is mostly when she has not had enough exercise and is bored.

It seems to me that offering a treat in exchange for a swiped item might just encourage her to do it again.

 

No it doesn't encourage a dog to "steal" more items to get a treat, it encourages them to give up anything they happen to pick up which can prove life saving if your dog picks up a potentially dangerous item.
While you are perfectly free to you an aversive "No" or "Unh Uh" to prevent you dog doing something, the majority of forum members discourage the use of aversives and only use positive reinforcement training for their puppies. It's one of the main reasons we belong to the forum. It is simple to teach a puppy to leave - Juno had it cracked within minutes and would leave treats until told she could take it. No stress, no aversives just a few minutes of training and one happy dog and owner. Once you have a good leave you use it every time they go to pick something up or just not to touch something.

 

I get leave it, or drop it. How do you teach the dog to pick up things they are allowed to (Toys, Birds, Balls etc.) but not things they aren't supposed to have.

 

My rule is, if it's on the floor at home, it's fair game. Outside, if I ask them to pick it up/retrieve it, or tell them "take it". Then they learn the difference between different objects. My two are allowed to pick up and carry pine cones (so they do) but not sticks (so they don't). Although rocks seem to have come back on the radar recently, and we're working on that.

 

As Fiona says you have a word which cues them not to do something so you train another cue which allows/encourages them to do an action. Indoors in the kitchen for instance if I drop something on the floor preparing food I will say "leave" then when I'm ready there's a "take" for her to pick up if she is allowed. Outside I usually use "Fetch".

 

Thank you so much for this reply. While I have upmost respect and gratitude for everyone who has replied ( we all have our own opinion and ways) I really do fail to see how giving a dog something in exchange for something that he has stolen, is not treating him for his misdoings. We treat and reward good behaviour to encourage it, so how does a dog differentiate between 'oh I did good' and 'oops shouldn't have taken that'; surely he's now thinking 'what can I grab next to get another reward?'

Anyway, we are improving. I haven't cleared my sides, they're tidy but it's a functioning family kitchen. Timber is a very welcome member of our family and we are committed, happily, to accommodating all of his needs but he has to fit in with us too. I 'bah!' at him when he jumps up or if I find him with anything that he has stolen from the kitchen side and I take it from him. If I don't catch him in the act or catch him with his ill gotten gains in his mouth, I ignore it. I don't offer any item in exchange and he always skulks to his bed, head low and very sombre - in my opinion (we all have our own and own experiences), he knows he did wrong. The frequency of him stealing is declining but is partly due to some new toys and activities - it is up to us to keep him 'entertained' and occupied. He is the first Labrador that we have welcomed into our home but he is the latest of a long line of canine companions (we have always had giant breeds with, heart breakingly, far shorter life span) so we're not new to having canine friends but this stealing from the worktops is something that we have never encountered. Thank you again

 

Hello there

Just to answer your question about communicating to a dog that he has done something 'wrong'. Lots of us don't do this, and we don't do it for very good reasons. We only try to reward the dog for behaviour we do want, and we try to make sure the dog doesn't get rewarded for behaviour we don't want. The reasons why are set out here: http://www.thelabradorsite.com/dog-training-methods/

If you want to train without punishment (and NO! and Uh-Uh are punishments if they work - by 'punishment' I mean something that deters a dog from doing something again - see this article for an explanation: http://www.thelabradorsite.com/punishment-in-dog-training/), then the key is to manage the environment as far as possible so the dog doesn't get a reward from behaviour that you do not want him to repeat. So if your dog is getting a reward from counter surfing, eg food or items he values, then you are what positive trainers would call 'setting your dog up to fail'. This means it is harder to be effective without using punishment. If you want to avoid punishment, then you have got to keep your counters clear, or live with your dog counter surfing.

On the specific issue of a Labrador picking up things (shoes etc) in the house, a lot depends on the nature of the dog and the strength of his instincts to pick things up. Most people who are interested in later training their Labrador to fulfill the job it was bred to do (be a retriever) will never, under any circumstances, punish a dog for picking things up. Even if that's our latest iphone. This is because the instinct to pick things up is too precious to risk damaging, we want to use it later in retriever training, and we never want it damaged by the dog being told off for picking things up.

This means that we do reward the dog for giving us anything it picks up in the house (at least until that is a trained behaviour). Personally, I think this does make the dog more likely to pick things up. With my own dog, I keep things out of his way, I tell him 'leave it' if I see him go to pick something up, and I reward him if he brings me things that I've forgotten to put away.

 

Thank you for all of your replies, it's great to know that there is so much support out there. Obviously, I have read all of the replies, opinions and advice and taken from it, what I have found most helpful. ( I always tell my kids that I will gladly give them advice whenever they ask, but it's up to them whether they take it because it's not always going to be right for them).

I think that I have maybe made Timber sound unruly but he's not at all - he's just a sneak thief! Timber does understand leave but in our house it's 'wait'! We can put an item on the floor, even his food, and if we have said 'wait' he just sits staring at it (He drools if it's his food). He won't approach or take it until we say 'Timber's'. If we drop something, as long as we say wait, he won't approach it and the same is for when we're out and about, he's great like that and with all other commands and tricks. He has just been quite determined to steal from the kitchen worktops but only in our absence, but we're improving without swapping items etc. (which we did try but it did seem to escalate). The only aversive that we use is Bah! (in a throat clearing way) taught to us many years ago when we sought help with our first dog. We have used it ever since and it covers any undesirable behaviour; use that sound and Timber has learned to stop whatever it is that he is doing or to relinquish what he has stolen that he still has in his mouth. Sometimes if he is being rowdy or over excited we have to clap our hands or make a sharp noise to get his attention and then use Bah! Once he's stopped or relinquished the item we follow it with a lot of praise (not a reward) to reinforce his positive response. That is, again, working really well for us, even with getting back the stolen item(s) but I wanted to try to stop the stealing in the first place. It seems that that is who he is and frustratingly, he doesn't steal shoes etc, which I could understand and would accept as fair game, if we leave things around; he is more interested in items that are left (what is supposed to be) out of his reach. Many thanks again

 

He is not stealing - because he has no concept of stealing. What he is doing is repeating behaviour that has previously earned him a reward. He is doing this when you are not there because when you are there you say "Bah!". This is a clear disadvantage of relying on punishment (just to underline again, I mean that in the technical sense of punishment, not that you are harshly handling your dog) - it's only effective if the dog is within reach of the punisher. It's hopeless when you are not there to say "Bah!".

I understand that you want to stop him stealing from counters when you are not there - keep your counters clear. If he doesn't get rewarded, ever, the behaviour of looking on the counters will become 'extinct' because it's no longer a rewarding thing to do.

 

Totally agree with JulieT's comments and would just add that a dog has no concept of right and wrong. I would be concerned if my dog "skulks to his bed, head low and very sombre" is a dog that is in distress. He knows you are angry for some reason but has no idea what for. The body language of "skulking" and "head low" is a response to punishment whether it is physical or not.

 

Instead of saying "bah" and clapping your hands to stop Timber's behaviour you could clicker train for his good and desirable behaviour, it's much for fun for you and Timber. As he's so young he will pick it up quickly and you will be training in a really positive way with great results. You can train just about anything with a clicker and lots of us on the forum have Lots of information on this forum to get you started