My new lab pup joins our family (we already have 2 labs) next weekend. I have never crate trained any of my girls before, but would like to this time. I posted a question earlier in the week about crate training at night and although I got some lovely replies, I have to confess to still being confused!!! Although a Pen was suggested, I would prefer to just use the Crate and close it from night one. What I'm struggling with is the advice to never, ever respond to a crying pup by opening the crate door. I understand, and am more than willing to set my alarm during the night to hopefully beat her to waking up needing to wee - but my confusion lies in the 'hopefully' part! The chances are she'll wake before me and then I'm immediately responding to a crying puppy! My heart tells me perhaps I will do no harm responding to her cries initially and the time between needing to go out will naturally widen - but my head tells me appearing in response to her crying will simply reinforce crying gets results! I haven't found any mention of using an open crate inside a sealed Pen in Pippa's books/website but am willing to do this if it's a good compromise? Would I leave the Crate open inside the Pen until she is a certain age and then do away with it and just use the crate with the door shut? As you can tell, this is really confusing me! Thank you for any replies!
I'm probably not the best person to advise as I've never crate trained a puppy but I have recently moved my two five year old labs from outside in a kennel to inside in crates. It wasn't easy. We had whinging and wailing for the best part of two weeks but every night it improved and I was lucky in that there was no house training required so I didn't have that problem. I would think you may still have the problem of a crying puppy even if you use the pen and leave the crate open. I think to begin with if puppy started crying I'd go into the room but not interact. Just going into the room may well stop the crying even momentarily which you can then reward by letting pup out of the crate. It's timing that's important even a persistant cryer has to stop at some point honest
I think you're probably getting yourself into a tiz about nothing - although it's far better to over-think than under-think things The biggest thing is that she doesn't get rewarded for crying for attention. If she's crying because she needs the toilet, that's a good thing. Just give her no interaction, no play time when you let her out. Open the crate, pick her up (important, so she doesn't get distracted and start playing on her way out), put her down in her toilet area. Give a cue for toileting if you want to use one (mine is "go wee wees" - I really wish I'd chosen something different because I feel like a fool using it in public!). Once she's gone to the loo, pick her up, carry her back to the crate, pop her back in, close the door and say "Good night", then leave her. If she tries to play instead of going to the toilet, pick her up and put her back in her crate without talking to her. She will soon learn that night time is boring and humans are boring at night, too. The only interaction she has is being picked up and put down, and a handful of words, to cue the toilet and tell her good night. No other chatter. No playtime. Nada. If you know that she doesn't need the toilet, for example when you've just put her to bed, then don't respond to her cries. You will very quickly learn the difference between the noise for wanting attention and the noise because something's wrong, like a full bladder.
The only thing I would add to Fiona's response is to bear in mind is that our puppy may cry the first nights because he's missing mum and his litter mates and in a strange place. Some people advocate to leave a puppy to cry or others have the crate beside the bed for the first nights to help puppy to settle in and also if you're a light sleeper allows you to pick up the first movements of puppy prior to needing to toilet so you can catch them before they cry. Try to remember there really isn't a right or wrong way, just what works best for us, our families and our puppies
@Sunshine I put a piece of fleece from the breeder in Mabel's crate. It worked a treat she snuggled up beautifully I'm sure she thought it was her mum. I also bought a Petstages cuddle pal and rubbed that along the back of Mabel's mum for the scent and popped that in the crate. It was the only thing she never chewed although it has recently fallen to bits but she is 15 months old now.
I have a dog that whines - not in his crate though. This has been a real old pain at gundog training, and I do believe that being vocal was encouraged in the house. Thankfully, he doesn't whine when he is working himself, and I have been able to manage his frustrations to reduce the problem of him whining while he is waiting to work. I've also had to work hard at stopping him whining in the car etc. I really would go the extra mile to avoid encouraging any noise in a crate. I think the happy puppy handbook is very clear on this point - don't go to a puppy that is crying (and that applies from the first night). So it is inconsistent as @Sunshine points out to wait for a puppy to wake you by crying (this is not what the happy puppy handbook recommends - it is clear that if the puppy is crying wait until it stops). If you are going to use a crate from night one, this does create a dilemma I think (and the happy puppy handbook also sets out the option of having the puppy in a box by your bed to reduce the chances of the puppy crying). Myself, I would not use a crate from night one, because your puppy isn't even crate trained on night one - what if puppy hates the crate, and yells the place down? Poor associations with the crate from the get go isn't great at all. You might get lucky and get a pup that loves the crate, is content and happy immediately - or you might not get lucky. So, my preference would be puppy in a box by my bed, and take puppy out before it cries. Then puppy in a pen - and I would not go to it if it is crying, knowing that it could move away from it's bedding if absolutely desperate for a pee, and then puppy in a crate over night once properly crate trained with the bladder control that meant I felt I could wait before letting the puppy out if it is crying. Anyway, that's what I'll do with my next pup (if there is a next pup).
Wise words. I had a box by my bed ready for Twiglet in case she was unsettled for the first few nights. I decided to let her cry for 20 minutes, no more. She cried for 15 minutes the first night and then never cried again. I shall do the same with the next pup (which could be quite soon - eeep!) (I have crate trained Twiglet but she's not in it overnight - just occasionally during the day when we go out to be sure she's OK, in case of vets etc, but she's been de-crated a long time now - she climbed out of the puppy pen at 16 weeks lol!) .
That was the common advice when we got Oban. The first night he SHRIEKED and SCREAMED and SHRIEKED in the middle of the night. I got up. He had peed, his bedding was soaking wet and so was he. He NEEDED to go out and pee. He needed a bath and so did all his bedding. Never, ever again. The crate door was opened from then on so if we didn't hear at least he didn't have to sleep in pee. Or poop or puke. He was gated in our kitchen, crate door open. The OH built very sturdy gates. Oban needed out twice a night for about a month, then once a night. Of course it was an exceptionally cold and snowy winter with many overnights of -30C. Oh, and he never shrieked again. Mind you, we tended to sleep lightly from then on.
I would go to a crying puppy as I would to a crying baby. Molly's my third puppy (4th dog) and they've all slept through the night within a week. Mind you they've all been in my room and not crated. They each moved downstairs after a few weeks (though Molly found her way back up at about 15months).
We have crate trained both of our labs and I cant imagine not. We have two crates, one in our main living area and the other in our bedroom. We have been very lucky and neither dog ever whined or cried at night. I really think being close to us helped tremendously. I did as mentioned above and when they woke up at night I took them out, no talking no playing....all business. Now my female slept on a fleece mat and never chewed on it. Quincy is another story and is very destructive so and he couldnt have any bedding until he was about 8 or 9 months and now he only has it at night. One very important tip is to make sure their crate isnt too big. If they have plenty of room, they will potty in it. I used a box in Quincys crate to make it smaller until he grew larger. You can buy some crates that have dividers. Good luck!!!
@Sunshine I've just read through this thread and as with most things there are different suggestions, all very good and helpful, because unfortunately one size never fits all. I would take all the advice and do what makes you feel happy and what works best for you and your pup don't worry about getting it wrong. It's good to have a plan but be ready to adapt because pups plan will probably be a lot different.
I agree with Jen,get your equipment lined up and a plan of what you think you are going to try and then don't stress if you have to deviate a little ......don't forget that how life looks in the very early days doesn't mean that's how it will be forever,very best of luck,most of all enjoy your puppy,they are small for such a short time x
