Hello all, I haven't been on the forum for a while so I hope everyone is well. We have been trying to keep things calm and low-key on the dog training front and I have tried not to worry about my lab - she is our first dog and is now 2yrs and 3 months old. She has been quite a handful over the past 2 years (very excitable, jumping up, mouthing and biting as a pup, running around the house and garden like a mad thing, eating something she shouldn't which resulted in an expensive operation, etc.) and things were getting better until the last few months. Despite my best efforts (well, as good as I could give), I guess I am still worried/stressed about a few issues, hence my return to this forum; I hope someone can help. I suppose I thought that by now she would be calmer and better behaved. She did calm down quite a lot after about 18 months but seems to have lapsed again; I'm not sure why. She has a regular routine with walks (45 mins to 1 hour daily), goes to doggy daycare once a week (and comes home shattered), is in perfect condition, well fed and cared for, sleeps well (mostly), she can walk nicely on a lead (but sometimes lapses, but that's ok, we just keep on the training for that)... but I haven't been (gundog) training with her in a class environment for 6 months. The reason is that she just cannot be calm enough to train properly when there are other dogs/humans around; I am in fear of having my arm yanked out of its socket or being floored by the training line when she takes off after someone else's dummy. I found the whole thing demoralising and so didn't stick at it. Has anyone else felt that some types of training just aren't suitable for whatever reason, or is it just my perception? Also, she is again displaying the behaviours I described above - very excitable, jumping up; out on walks she is ok until she sees... something, a person, dog, leaf! Her ears prick up and she is absolutely transfixed on it/him/her. I do distract her and mostly we can just walk on by; I dread to think what would happen if she was offlead. I can't even imagine letting her offlead except in a secure dog field (we use one nearby) as I do not want to fall foul of the new(ish) dog laws or risk her running into the road. When it is just the two of us, she will recall just fine, will retrieve a dummy, will wait, do a blind retrieve; the problem is when there's something else going on. She's not steady at all and I think this is a big failure on my part; perhaps I didn't socialise her sufficiently? We live in the country and have few visitors so maybe that is a factor. Another area of concern is that she has started barking/whining when she is in the kitchen. When I am home, I usually walk her a couple of hours after feeding her and she was fine with this routine, but not now. Whilst I am upstairs showering, she's downstairs barking and whining, sometimes howling. I purposely ignore her and do not go to her but it seems to make no difference. The act of complaining when I leave the room at certain times has become ingrained even though I do not go back downstairs to her. She is becoming quite high maintenance and I realise that we have inadvertently instilled these habits so will need to look at rectifying them, but I am not sure how. Needless to say, I am feeling demoralised again with the whole situation and wonder if I have made a massive mistake in getting her in the first place. (I can't believe I just wrote that.) I have looked at the advice on the labrador site and am trying to follow it, but I cannot seem to break the cycle. It is affecting family life a bit too, as our routine revolves around her needs first. She is also doing a lot more of the taking things and running under the table/desk and this seems to be getting worse. Is this unusual at this age? We certainly don't want a repeat of her eating something she shouldn't again and having to have an operation. All in all, I am wondering if she needs to see a behaviourist? Or maybe I am over-reacting and all she needs is further training and we need to be more vigilant about leaving pens on side-tables . I think she might need more exercise as she loves to run but even though we live in the country, there are few places she can walk safely, let alone run offlead; on the other hand, if I could do more training, this would exercise her brain and properly tire her out.... have I managed to cultivate a fit but bored dog? She is a lovely girl and is fine on the whole but I feel like we've come full circle with some aspects of her behaviour. Any ideas or advice greatly appreciated. Many thanks in advance
Hi, nice to see you again I think your statement hits the nail on the head , a fit but maybe bored dog . Our Labs differ so very much , some being far more prone to boredom if their brains are idle, even if they are physically tired , others being complete couch potatoes Could you maybe try gundog training again but on a 1-1 basis ? This was what I chose to do with my lad , it was far easier for him to concentrate when other dogs weren't around , and then the actual training taught him to concentrate, even when other dogs were around, if that makes sense
Hi there, I think you have really answered a lot of your own questions in your post. Labs of this age are intelligent dogs that need stimulation and exercise to be calm. Calmness does not automatically come from age and your dog is still super young. My bitch is pretty much the same age and I can tell when she does not get her usual walk quota her bounciness escalates. She is a total dream if she gets what she needs. I don't think the behaviour that stopped you going to class was unusual and really although super hard to tolerate a reason to stop. The only way in my experience that digs like thus learn to settle around other dogs us to train around other dogs. I did a year of weekly obedience classes with meg. Many classes I left feeling unless and demoralised . Meg had all the behaviours you described. I felt all the perfect owners of perfect little dogs were laughing at us. However I stuck at it and was super proud when she nailed her bronze and silver obedience awards on the same day. Now as long as she gets a good run regularly she is a peach. So I think I am saying try and bite the bullet and be brave and find a class that suits . Also look again at Total Recall, if she can have her walk off lead she will be more shattered and calm. I don't think she needs a behaviourist just a bit of training. Maybe try some 1:1 training to get your confidence back. All the best Emma and the Megster
Well said @Edp, very good advice. I am also wondering if she is learning bad habits at doggy daycare, running around with other dogs, leaping about and generally being overexcited?
Hi everyone, thank you for the replies, a few things to think about. KateinCornwall I feel that 1-1 training may be the way forward initially (again), interestingly, the catch-22 is exactly what Edp said - I am torn between feeling that the 1-1 is right for us at this time but also knowing that persevering with weekly training with other dogs was the ideal thing to have done - I did take Lily to obedience classes and had EXACTLY the same issues re: the owners of the perfect little dogs, they would just stand there, looking at us, no doubt feeling really smug. I left each week in tears walking down the lane back to the car, it was always my dog that was the one the trainer would roll her eyes and sigh at. Major congrats for your silver and bronze awards, and on the same day! How absolutely brilliant . Training looks to be the way forward and also some recall work. Unfortunately, we have had a case of Alabama Rot here in the village and in several places around here so I will try to find a suitable place for her to have a run while we train as we only go to the secure dog field once a week for a mad dash (then she is officially a couch potato for the day and night following!). Do you find it is difficult to locate a nice place to let your dog have a run? Stacia, I have thought about the doggy daycare factor - she does go in all bouncy as she likes a fuss with the owner and then will walk in to the kennel area in an ok (calmish) manner... and she is also not allowed to run about with the other dogs, only the owner's dogs with whom she goes on walks (2/3 spaniels). They have a routine and her time in the secure field is her own (apparently). The ideal would be a day a week with a trainer, but that is difficult as there are very few available in this area. Many, many thanks again for your advice - yes I suppose she is still young so it is just a case of back to basics and keep her training going, with a regular run. We'll give it a go!
Hallo. You sound like I felt three years ago! Snowie is four now, but when we went to training (from 3 months of age), all the other dogs acted perfectly except Snowie. The straw that broke my back was when the instructor said: All the other dogs have progressed except Snowie. Well, I'm glad she said that, because I felt so broken from that comment that I left that school after persevering for 1.5 years and always feeling a failure, and went to another school where I felt we were the stars! Well, everyone in the new school felt like the star of the class because you spent the entire class focussing on your dog and never actually got to see what anyone else was doing, so there was no comparison! The classes were tiny (4 or 5 dogs), very quiet and calm, positive training only, and we had to use a chest-fastening harness (great for controlling a boisterous pup). The first school had about 50-60 dogs on the field in various classes, dogs were manic, people were shouting, and it just made Snowie hyper. I thought he was excited, but in retrospect, I think he was running on some other energy, not necessarily nervous energy because he's a confident dog, but it was fuelling a hyper behaviour. And there was no way I could ever set him up for success in such an environment because of all the distractions -- and just so unfair to such a social boy. As for the barking and whining: we could never take him to cafes because he barked as soon as he had to settle down, hated doing nothing. From the new school I learned to "rain" treats down on him while he was lying quietly, and it has worked a charm. He still finds it difficult to relax on an outing, ie just lie quietly next to the table, but with the use of treats, it is definitely manageable, and there are times when he is the picture of perfect behaviour (and then we can't help but exclaim!). Regarding her needs coming first -- haha! My husband always complains that I work around Snowie's needs rather than the other way around. A peep out of Snowie and I take him out. Except I was given strict instructions (from my husband) not to do this because, when he took a day to work from home, he was constantly being asked for an outing by you know who. I persevered for a week, and Snowie, a creature of habit, got used to fewer outings. It takes a will of steel to not give into those begging eyes, the whines, the deafening barks, but I must say it was easier than I anticipated. I hope it all works out for you. Others on this forum are far more experienced than I am and will give great advice. But from one who has been there, I just want to say I empathise with you! And funnily enough, I think Snowie is now the most well adjusted dog I know, easy to take anywhere, and has turned out just great despite that trainer's comment.
Have you thought of perhaps a 121 session to get your training kick-started, particularly with tips on working around distractions and then join a group class? My girl has become a bit over excited to meet and greet other dogs since moving, but with the help from a 121 I've made huge steps forward, not perfect but we're getting there. I also lined a class and although Juno is probably the most keen to meet and greet, each week sees an improvement. I use look at me and hand touches rewarded with treats for attention. The key, I think to, a good class is having a great instructor. Someone who always rolls their eyes over your dogs behaviour really is not a good trainer. You could try looking at APDT.COM to see if hey have trainers in your area who only train with positive re-enforecement methods. Finding a safe place to let your dog off lead is always a problem, particularly if recall isn't too good, but with the Total Recall book recommended you will see a great improvement. On the exercise front could you increase the walks so she's getting perhaps 1.5 hours a day split over a couple of walks? Can you play some retrieve, chase games in the garden coupe with a short training session to help tire out furry brains.
MF thank you so much for the words of encouragement I will persevere but it is so hard when you think you're doing well, then BAM! Either someone says something (like someone did this morning: " She's loopy!") or she does something daft... she's now trying to lie on the laptop keyboard as she wants a cuddle. MaccieD - 1-1 is a definite starting point, remains to be seen whether she'll ever be able to join a real class again but hopefully one day she will. I will have a look at APDT.com, thanks for the tip. It does help doing a few games in the garden so will keep this up - I don't know about my dog, but after 2 years with my lab I think it's me that has the furry brain!!
For some reason I've made the assumption you're in the US, probably the doggy daycare reference, but if you're in the UK the web address for trainers will be APDT.CO.UK
No problem, I use the term as it appears to be something people are now saying in the UK too for some reason! I will check out the UK site - thank you
EVERYTHING you wrote I felt like writing ditto underneath. You are describing Molly to a "T". I too feel despondent and that we are going backwards. I cannot see why. I am pretty sure I have been training her correctly. I cannot see the point of seeing a trainer who will probably just repeat what I have been told in the past. I think it is down to me to put my head down and keep on with the training. Molly, at two and a half, is Molly, a boisterious lively Labrador. I thought I'd be over the active training stage by now, that I would be able to wander along having my own thoughts. But that is not the case, like many Labs she is having an extended puppyhood. All is not lost, when my vet gave her her shots in January he advised me that at two and a half some Labradors decide they are middle aged. Molly turns two and a half on Sunday so all will be calm and tranquil
I certainly found that prior to Sam starting 1-1 gundog training , he had little focus , yes he was reasonably obedient but not to the degree I wanted . The training was as much for my benefit as for Sams , it taught him to focus on the task in hand and self discipline too , plus it taught me how to channel his natural desire to retrieve , and how to handle him . He isn't perfect, far from it, but that training set the foundations for a well balanced and biddable happy dog .
It must be super hard if you struggle to find places to let her run. We are lucky as everywhere in the Yorkshire Dales is pretty dog friendly so she is never on the lead. I do have to drive to walk her but it's worth it. Maybe if you find some good classes they can advise where is good and safe to take her. Don't feel disheartened most of us lab owners have felt like you have at some point. Make a bit of a plan then you will feel more organised. Keep popping in to update us so we can empathise and cheer you along the way
That's why having a 121 can sometimes help, when you can't see why your training isn't working. If what you've been doing isn't working why continue down the same road. With my 121 for Juno back in January I didn't learn anything I didn't already know, what I did gain was some different techniques that did make a difference for both of us.
Haha yes, fingers crossed this is the case let me know how that goes! But seriously, whilst I am glad I'm not alone in this situation, I am sorry you are having similar challenges. Let's hope that in time, with a bit of maturity and training, all will be well.
That is what I want... perhaps I just need to find the right trainer for me, rather than Lily. I don't find it easy as I doubt myself when under scrutiny, as it were, but am ok on my own.
Thanks for this - though I am slightly envious as you live in the Yorkshire Dales, such a beautiful part of the world (OH is a Yorkshireman)!! I have found it tricky to find places to walk/train her since day 1, so this has been a constant source of stress actually; the only places were in classes and you know how that turned out (so far, anyway)... A plan of action sounds like a good idea, even if it is just some new trails/routes for walkies. That'd be an improvement on the current state of things, notwithstanding the Alabama Rot hotspots.
I have a couple of local walks where Juno can be off lead for most of it, but other than that it's a car ride to some where different. it might be worth sharing with members which county you are in and see if there are any suggestions for off lead walks. It's quite surprising sometimes where you can walk with your dog .
Have you thought abut doing a class like agility or flyball? I do agility and have found that Harley has got much better around other dogs and especially around calming down and focusing on me. I'm a family support worker.........my job is to help families with their child's difficult behaviour (amongst other issues). Parents have the tools, know what to do, but sometimes need a different persons perspective or to be given new techniques. It's the same with our dogs. If your way isn't working it's worth asking for other people to help as they may see what you are missing.
I wonder if she needs a bit more exercise or play with you - you say she has 45minutes to an hour daily which doesn't sound enough to me. My dog is a similar age and has at least 2 hours daily exercise, split into morning and afternoon and in between she mostly just snoozes. Perhaps it's worth increasing her time out and about and seeing if that helps.
