At the end of my rope: overeating and dependence

Dear all,

This is my first post. We are a married gay couple who decided to get a dog with some trepidation: in particular as our first pick, a lovely border collie, turned out to suffer from such anxiety that we had to pull back.

So we opted for what seemed like a safe bet: a pedigree lab. And we loaded up on an arsenal of handbooks of varying literary prowess.

Our hard work paid off. We now have an adorable 1.5 year-old bitch that somehow managed to charm even my dog-hating father in law. She is very sociable, but knows exactly whether her advances would be welcome or not. And I think I have only seen her growl once.

So we love her. But one problem in particular caused us serious concern recently. She is a true omnivore. She is always chewing grass, which we sometimes have to pull out the other end. We have managed to wean her off feces from other animals and even, once that we know of, humans, but she is also smart and knows how to dodge our gaze. But recently, she disappeared for more than a minute - which rarely happens - and came back almost twice the size. We suspect she found a whole bag of stale bread. She could hardly move and would not even have dinner, something which has never happened before. My partner is in the health sector and knew about the lethal consequences of sudden overeating in combination with physical activity.

That was a wake-up call. We now put her on a leash most of the time (a pity, since we had worked so hard at getting her to follow our signs), and try to correct her every time she picks something up from the street. Most of the time we are in the woods or on nature trails, however, and we cannot correct her instantly. When she does eat something even though I tell her not too, I try to grab her by the neck and push her down, gently but firmly, and hold her 10 seconds, making sure she knows that we disapprove.

But the situation is so frustrating. We are seriously concerned about her life. There appears to be few limits to what she enjoys - last week in Italy she even wolfed down, I swear, a lemon, and even Swedish licorice with ammonium chloride (salty) tickled her taste buds. It happens quickly: she even managed to wolf down most of a sizable puddle of human vomit, redolent of red wine. And bones drive her crazy: she makes chicken bones, splinters and all, disappear in a matter of seconds.

That labs have problems with overeating I knew already. And her weight is optimal, perhaps on the skinny side, as we both enjoy hiking and mountains. But how can we get her to avoid some of the most dangerous or disgusting things she finds? I would like to hear how you have tackled this problem? Positive and negative.

 

Hi Anders, and welcome to the forum!
It sounds like your girl has a great life
I think your problem is a not uncommon one - my own girl loves a good rummage in the hedgerows and plays "stay away" with her ill-gotten gains. In my case its usually relatively benign and natural animal poop or dead animals (the well rotted variety). She has a cast iron stomach.
Best defence is probably teaching a robust "leave it" and recall.
And avoiding punishment techniques

These rather than punish a dog can sometimes act as a reinforcer.

I am sure someone else with more training experience will be able to give you more detailed tips whilst I buzz of and search for useful links.
You MIGHT find that using a basket muzzle in the short time could relieve some of the stress you must feel on your walks.

 

Hi and welcome to the forum What is your dog's name?

Labradors are well known for their willingness to classify almost everything as food... The behaviour you're describing is normal for a Labrador. Dogs (and wolves before them) evolved to be opportunistic eaters that took advantage of human scraps. They are kind of programmed to do it. That doesn't mean you need to let her eat anything she can scavenge off the street though

I would avoid taking her by the scruff or pushing her down. That won't do anything to stop her wanting to find and eat things and may have the unwanted effect of her trying to keep her distance from you or being wary of you when she finds something. So I'd just stop doing that.

The best thing to do it to train a really good recall or 'leave it' cue in the context of food on the ground. You can practise this at home, starting with boring and unrewarding things like an empty bowl, then a bowl with paper in it, then with carrots or something else safe but not too enticing. Start with her on the lead so she can't her to the bowl and get her attention with a really tasty treat, like cooked steak, raw mince or roast chicken. Reward her with the treat for coming to you, not going to the bowl. You can gradually work up to using more interesting food distractions, while still using excellent, highly tasty treats as the reward. There is probably an article on this on the main site so I'll try to find it for you.

 

There is an article related to How to stop your Labrador eating rubbish
....and also Why dogs eat poop and what you can do about it

 

Haha, was just about to add links to the same two articles

 

I'm OK finding the advice, just don't ask me to quote it without looking - not my forte!

 

I was just about to write a massive post but Oberon has beaten me to it.

I would just highlight the bit about holding her down. This disapproval will only translate into her keeping away from you with her ill gotten gains. No matter how grim her prize you want her to drop or deliver it rather than eat it. The best way to achieve this is as Rachael describes above. If you need management then a basket muzzle as Jac suggested will help, take time to get her used to it using plenty of rewards to build a positive association with it. Then you can let her enjoy roaming again

 

Hi Anders, welcome to the forum! I have nothing to add to the great advice given already, but just wanted to say hello from me and my yellow boy Pongo in south Wales. Do you live in Italy?

 

Hello there, and a very warm welcome to the forum!

You've had some great advice above already. (Including stop with the holding her down thing! ).

The only thing I'd add is a point about keeping your dog very close to you on walks. I've been on a long journey with this with my dog, but now he stays very close to me off lead when we are walking, and he gets long runs and exercise through retrieving and hunting for things that I put out for him. I don't let him 'free run' very far from me, he is also a dog that gets into a great deal of mischief and so basically I've trained him to stay close to me so I can stop him doing that. He isn't perfect, particularly around water, but this is my main strategy.

His particular vices are balls and toys - he will mug a child for a kite, deliver golf balls back to the person that hit them, and cause chaos in a football game. He is driven to do this like other dogs seem driven towards food. I know my 'leave it', stop and recall will work for a football further away than 30m, so he stays within 20m, and that's that. He doesn't go out of my sight. That's an absolute rule I don't compromise on.

 

Maybe have a vet check her out for worms. Could explain the grass eating. Eating indigestible matter on her own suggests something amiss IMO. Or maybe she's just hungry or nutrition is poor. If she's on kibble consider going raw.

 

Eating grass is pretty normal in my experience. I don't think it's associated with a tummy upset. A regular worming regime is a must though, with these garbage gutses

And who doesn't love pulling poopy grass out of their dog's bottom

 

Sounds pretty normal lab behaviour to me. Teach "leave it" and don't grab round the neck they just gobble it faster and won't come near when they have something tasty. Your list of stuff is not really that different from what we have all gone through at some point and although it seems vile to us it very tasty for them.

Having had a very small lab female who has been known to vanish and eat a kilo and a half of raw back bacon (she stole it from a local hotels bins) I would say the advice of keeping her close and having a nice really amazing treat to call them back works.

 

@Anders Oh, I did love your post -- thank you for the laugh!! I know it can't be funny for you, but the lemon -- that takes the cake! Our boy has a penchant for human poo, too. It is too revolting for words and his face stinks afterwards. Unfortunately we have many homeless people in our area, so he is bound to find human poo -- and I am pretty sure it is comes out of someone taking alcohol and drugs, so it is a worry. At one spot that seems to be a permanent toilet, and where Snowie is off leash. I tell him sternly to leave it, and he is well aware that it is very naughty to go near -- although he sometimes does chance it. I have started to avoid that particular area; it's easier than having to deal with a stinky mouth.

Regarding all the other things Snowie picks up: I always ask him if I can see what he has in his mouth (in a very kind curious voice), and he will drop it to show me, but then I always allow him to pick it up again. I think letting him take it again makes him trust me to show me what he has; he never tries to gobble it up in a hurry or run away with it. If I think the object is dangerous -- like a really hard bone that might break his teeth -- then I do take it away and apologise to him (do you think he understands?! Anyway, it makes me feel better!).

Good luck. There is excellent advice here on this thread.

 

Welcome to you Anders - looks like you have a normal Lab there!



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I think this is a very good thing to do - to act like you're really interested and think they're very clever for finding whatever they have. The dog is more likely to let you close if you're acting like you're quite pleased and impressed with what they have. If you act cranky then you reduce your chances of getting near and greatly increase the chances of them taking off with the forbidden object.

 

Greetings Anders. Most of us will have experience of our Lab eating something that is, to us totally, disgusting.

It does take some time to gain control of this. Molly used to be a devil for it.

I have used the clicker to train her to leave undesirable things alone. I tell her "Leave" and as soon as she starts to move away I click her (which tells her I like what she is doing) then I give her a treat. As with all dog training it doesn't appear to be effective at first, but if you persevere it will happen eventually. That is not to say I have never hauled Molly away from something completely unacceptable

Sometimes I simply swap what she has for something that she will want more, I used to get through a lot of kibble that way.

I used to feel vaguely uncomfortable that I was letting the dog 'win', but then it occurred to me that I was only feeding her her own dinner so I no longer worry about it, in fact I have been know to grin at her and call her a "Succcour"

 

Hi Anders. Saba likes to gather up all kinds of edible and non-edible delights, although he hasn't (yet) eaten poop of any kind When I spot he has something in his mouth, I ask him to show me, and sometimes, I trade whatever he has for a tiny bit of kibble. Your post did ring a tiny alarm bell; I have a friend with an English Springer Spaniel whose voracious appetite turned out to be Cushings Disease, so I think I would book a thorough health check with the Vet to rule out any parasitic or disease involvement, just for peace of mind. In all likelihood, you have a completely normal Labrapig who needs to be taught a firm 'leave' command. It won't come easily, but persevere, and you will get the result you're looking for.

Saba is more of a hoarding thief than a secret eater. He likes to steal clothes, socks. tea towels, shoes, and car keys, and stash them either in his overnight crate or his toy box, but at least we know where to look!

 

Willow is a disgusting Labrapig. I don't know if Shadow has ever eaten poo, and isn't anywhere near as driven to get to any food dropped on the floor outside. Willow's "leave it" is coming along really well, and she'll come away from enjoying a lovely meal of sheep droppings now. I don't think this would transfer to more - er - fragrant delights yet, though. Definitely a work in progress!

 

I do wonder whether it's more of a girl thing, poo eating, all that keeping puppies clean etc....

 

Hi and welcome to the forum, you are not alone. I'm still working on the "leave it" cue. My girl is 16 months so I've a long way to go. Mabel absolutely loves cow poo, rabbit poo or goose poo. Yuk. Although her favourite is rabbit half eaten ones that we presume have been killed by foxes. She will run round with the legs dangling from her mouth. The joys of countryside walking.