This relates to Debs' thread - stop & stay at a distance - but I didn't want to hi-jack that one, so have started a new thread. This morning I tried using a placeboard for the first time (well a towel!) in the recreation ground and Molly understood instantly what I wanted. (She already knows 'go to your bed' so I suppose this was similar.) I was able to send her to the towel from any direction and get her to lie down on it at once (I've decided what I want is a 'down' at a distance), including having the towel between me and her, so she was in a sense stopping on recall, which is what we need for KC gold. I was delighted and then folded the towel into a 6 inch square and she still got it! So much for the boasting. I then tried removing the towel and asking for a down as she was coming towards me (I didn't call her, but waited till she was coming in my direction) but she clearly didn't understand and just kept coming but more hesitantly. I suppose I tried to move on too quickly. (I went back to using the towel to re-establish what we'd already done.) I've re-watched the kikopup video and Julie's videos and I suppose I need to associate a signal and word more with the action before I fade the towel. I'll have another go later.
sounds like a really good start! - lots of practise with the mat and associate a signal/word like you said. When you want to fade the mat - you could try several stops on the mat in one particular place and then remove the mat but ask for the stop in the same place to begin with.
I didn't try fading (or really, just removing) a placeboard for quite a while. I think it makes a difference how you remove the placeboard depending on whether you are trying to use the placeboard to establish a new behaviour, or just to try reduce the impact of a distraction. If I'm training a new behaviour, and using the placeboard to get that behaviour, then I'll train with the placeboard for a long time. And in different places until the behaviour really seems to be becoming establihed then I'll remove the placeboard in the easiest place first. I think you are really training a new behaviour. If the behaviour is well established (eg sit and wait) but I'm using the placeboard to help proof against a new distraction then I'll typically try two or three times with the placeboard, if he is successful, I'll just remove the board. I also spent hours and hours and hours rewarding 'being on the board' as the best place in the whole world for a dog to be...
@Joy - I'm just posting a vid on my training log of me removing my placeboards on some steadiness exercises, in case helpful.
I've been pressing on and now have my 'placeboard' which started life as a towel, down to a bit of cloth about 3 inches square -BUT if I remove it Molly still won't stop. Today it was windy, I called Molly, said 'drop' when she got to the scrap of fabric and she lay down. The wind blew the fabric away and she didn't attempt to chase it, which pleased me. However trying it again in the same place but without the cloth, she just kept coming. She will respond to 'drop' when next to me, or if I send her away from me a short distance without the cloth, it's just a problem on recall. We've got about 6 weeks to master it before the KC gold test. I can't bring myself to sound cross when she keeps coming to me (and I know most people on here wouldn't suggest that - it's just that I've seen some people stopping their dogs by stamping at them.) Any other suggestions?
If you sit her up, tell her wait, and walk away the distance that she'd be at when you said 'drop' and give her the drop cue, would she? So does she understand drop at a distance without the added difficulty of her travelling towards you?
@JulieT I didn't know, so have just tried and the answer is yes, but our rooms are tiny, so i was only about 8 feet away from her.
I think I'd try training all the things that make up what you want her to do, and heavily reinforce them. So have her drop from a sit or a stand at a distance on your towel. And increase your distance from the towel slowly. Don't underestimate how many times you have to associate the verbal cue for her to really get it. Then try get the drop without the towel. Then with her moving and the towel etc. then try to make the towel even smaller - cut it up! And so on.
Thanks. I think more practise with drop with me at a distance could be the way to go. And yes I don't think she's really got the verbal cue yet - and I think my hand signal might look different when she's close to me. More practise tomorrow.
I bet you'll crack it easily in 6 weeks, if you have already got her doing it on the towel, no probs. Tiny steps, you get there faster than trying to take big ones.
What are you rewarding with? If you can throw it you can hold the ball (for example) up in your hand when she stops on the mat. If she stops you throw it to her, if she doesn't you can throw it over her head to an assistant. Because the ball goes over her head she may be less likely to travel forward. The raised hand can turn into your physical cue for stop.
I'm rewarding with food at the moment, although I intersperse all my training with play as well. Thanks for your suggestion, though I'd then have to fade the ball.
You can hold up food and throw to reward but the people that did that found it more difficult as the food wasn't always visible in the hand for the early stages and food can be hard to throw far. When you want to fade the ball turn your hand so the ball is towards you, the back of your hand to the dog and then the ball is hidden by your hand. Then just use your hand but reward with the ball out of your pocket.
I used the ball technique. I basically used it with the ball in sight maybe three times, then just tried without the ball in my hand. It worked perfectly well. I didn't even think about turning my hand the other way
I didn't need to turn my hand round for Obi either. I only did for Riley as we used the technique in a class and that was the 'next step' I think it's a simple approach and has worked well for both my dogs (I like simple )
I used a ball to get sit at a distance, but only in the context of my dog mooching round and establishing the initial behaviour and it worked well. I then busted my stop by using a rabbitskin ball when my dog was heading towards me - the concept of stopping when a rabbit skin ball was on offer and he was already heading towards that wonderful thing was a step too far! After that, I used my placeboards and trained the action of stop on a recall in 10 mins (Charlie already had a strongish stop though), but had already trained placeboads or other things. I never throw anything over my dog's head if I can help it, I dislike that 'twist' that the dog does (I know, I'm a bit obsessive about repetitive actions!). It's definitely worth a try - for a down though....which is what Joy wants. She'd have to have that down at a distance first, I reckon.
I should add both my dogs sit on a stop whistle. I think the movement of the raised hand supports the sitting motion nicely bringing the head up and therefore the bum down. I don't know if it will work so well for a down........
LOL It's useful to know what the interim step could be in case it's needed but I doubt I will ever use it again
I don't ever remember fading the ball - as far as I remember, I said "Charlie!", Charlie looked up, I held up a ball and said "sit". He sat, I blew my stop whistle, and threw a ball. Then I just blew my stop whistle and Charlie responded and had his bum on the floor as fast as other dogs respond to "squirrel!". Charlie has no interest whatsoever in squirrels.
