Hi everyone i really have a problem with Milo at the moment (typical Lab get over one and another one arises). He is 2 next month and will interact with small male dogs and females but no large male his size. I am wondering if its his age but he doesn't stop barking when he meets one. My trainer is bringing his 2 year old rottweiller to train with him (both on leads) he is fine but Milo goes berserk barking when he sees him. I worry that they will fight although Milo cowers when a dog rises over him. Anyone else had this problem males with males and is it normal male teenage behavior ? i wonder if i should just keep him away from males or keep interacting him.
The best course of action depends upon why Milo is barking at the larger dogs, is it fear, challenging, excitement? Does he bark if the larger dog is female, or just male dogs. What is actually happening when he cowers if a dog rises above him? Did your trainer shed any light or their thoughts on Milo's behaviour seeing him interact with their own dog?
I'm no behaviourist but I would be slightly wary of having dogs on leads as that can cause unnatural interaction. I certainly don't advocate 'letting them sort it out' either though. When I look at the photos from places that specialise in helping dogs with their social skills and anxieties they often work with fences between the dogs so the dogs are free to come closer or retreat. This kind of thing is terribly difficult to help with online in my opinion.
Milo is fine with most female dogs the problem seems to be male.The training on lead is to stop Milo barking when dogs pass. The problem in Malta is dogs have to be on leads in most places there are very few places where they can go lead free.He is better off a lead. I think he is all bark but when approached no action (submissive).Then i feel he will be the one to get hurt.
I have a similar problem with Shadow. I have an appointment booked with a behaviourist when I'm back in England to get some advice. At the moment, I'm working on him ignoring other dogs when he's on lead. Like Milo, he's far worse on lead than off, and he tends to bark and lunge, so I keep my distance and C&T for calm behaviour, using the "look at that" method. Using this, we've managed to get to the point where, if I have the chance to get him "in the zone" in time, we can walk past another male dog within 5m without him reacting. I don't know if this is of any interest, but I saw this on The Labrador Site's Facebook page this morning. It's an interesting read, but I wouldn't put anything in here into practice with an unknown dog - I'm hoping the behaviourist will be able to shed some light on whether Shadow is actually being aggressive or just "conversing" as it suggests could be the case in this article: http://thebark.com/content/dogs-use-non-aggressive-fighting-resolve-conflicts
I'm not a behaviourist so I can only comment from my own experience: Snowie is an intact male and he doesn't have any issues with other dogs his size (or bigger or smaller). He is 4 years old now and does not race to say hallo to every dog like he used to do when he was 2 years old -- then he was ultra friendly; now he is more discerning, I am presuming an age thing. There are some dogs he does not want to interact with at all -- those are generally dogs that don't like him. One of them is a huge intact Ridgeback who I am learning has a reputation of being an aggressive dog, so I don't blame Snowie for wanting to avoid him. I'm really sorry you're struggling with this and hope you will be able to find a solution. I'm sure with the right advice you will -- so many of us are on this forum looking for advice for problems and have succeeded. Best of luck!
Thanks so much fantastic to read really helps to understand you dog more. all dog owners should read it.
Thank You so much i think i need to chill out a bit when he is around dogs as i know they sense how we feel. My problem is i had to have a 13 year old dog put down as she attacked my mother in law when she came to live with me (the mother in law hates dogs so she sensed it ) but i had no other option. So i am very wary of milo doing something wrong. ( maybe i need a behaviorist )
@crissie If you can a session with a good behaviourist would help to work out exactly what is behind Milo's behaviour, particularly as you say I appreciate how hard it can be too manage dogs meeting each other when they have to be on lead, with all the problems that can cause by itself, not everyone has the freedom to allow their dog to be off lead most the time in public and we have to try and manage within those restrictions many of my best local walks ban dogs completely, I appreciate their reasons but it does mean that those areas are not well frequented a lot of the time.
Our local park banned dogs a few years ago because a council worker was attacked by a neighbour's dog who had got out of his yard (this dog was subsequently pts due to aggression). As a result of the dog ban, no-one went to the park, not even non-dog people. The reason being that the park became empty and lonely, and people were too afraid to go there. After about three months someone pulled down the sign and the dogs came back. Thereafter the park became a hive of activity again not only with dog walkers, but also all the kids and nannies who used to come before. It appears the council are aware of the benefits of dogs and the people who accompany them because they have officially made half the park a dog park by moving all the play equipment into one area and fencing it off for kids, the rest being free-run for dogs. This park is the busiest community park in our area (in fact, all the other parks are usually empty, no-one wants to be in those parks alone). If only other areas of our city recognized the benefits of allowing dogs in public spaces and on trails -- safety in numbers is what it is all about, and dog walkers definitely swell the numbers.
Hi there, I've never owned any other dog but entire males, all our family dogs were entire boys, and so is my own dog, Charlie. I'd say a bit of wariness between strange adult male dogs happens so often as to be normal. Time to time boys might sort of "square up" to each other and have a little stand off that might escalate into a few growls, and on occasion interactions between male dogs won't go so well, but on the whole, I think it's normal for an entire male dog to get alone well with other males and I don't think it's normal for a male 2 year old dog to act like you describe Milo acting. I'd say at 2 years old Milo isn't really a teenager anymore - teenage surges of testosterone etc will have long worn off. From what you say, it sounds like Milo has become scared of larger males dogs. This could be for lots of reasons, just the temperament of your dog, or because he's had some unpleasant experiences etc. Left unaddressed, I'd be worried that this might develop into more problematic behaviour. So I'd try to take steps to think about what you might do. Seeking professional help with this might be a really sensible thing to do - is your trainer helping you more generally as well as bringing a dog to train with Milo? The other thing you might think about is whether Milo could walk off lead with other dogs for a while - I had a problem with Charlie being nervous of other dogs after he was isolated for a long time following surgery, and I found an extremely experienced dog walker that took Charlie out in a group of bitches and younger males, and this did a lot to restore Charlie's confidence. Just having dogs around Charlie that were all relaxed, would meet and greet other dogs casually and normally, and move on, was just the ticket.
I am having a little bit of an issue with Poppy since she got badly bitten recently in a completely unprovoked manner, and had to have stitches. She is fine with dogs that she knows, but with big dogs that she doesn't recognize she either drops to the ground and is extremely submissive and clearly worried, or else she stands her ground and barks (which she never did in the past). I am working on this with gentle encouragement and giving her treats for normal, quiet behaviour, and am hoping that as she gets her confidence back she will relearn her normal manner of interacting with dogs that she does not know - as Charlie relearnt how to interact after his surgery. I actually find that I am very nervous of unknown big dogs now - worried that she will get bitten again. My heart pounds and my hands get sweaty. I am having to re-train my own response, as I am sure my nervousness communicates itself. With Milo, I think he would benefit from getting to know other male dogs - but slowly and carefully. On lead is always a bit difficult, but maybe you could walk adjacent to your trainer and his male dog, but at a far enough distance that Milo is comfortable with it and doesn't get worried. Then slowly you can decrease the distance, until they are happy to walk near each other, which may take several sessions. As for letting them off lead, you and your trainer will have to judge when and how this would best work. Certainly it is important for him to learn proper doggy etiquette with other males, otherwise the situation will continue to get worse, in my opinion.
Yes, so recognise this - this was the other reason Charlie walking with my dog walker was good, because it removed my reaction from the mix!
@Karen - could you set up scenarios with friendly dogs that Poppy doesn't know? It's probably the case that she already knows all your friends' dogs, but I was wondering if there was another degree of separation you could use - ask your friends if they have other friends with dogs that would fit the bill?
Most dogs around us are friendly, and actually she does meet lots of strange dogs when we go training or to working tests - but there the dogs are all focused on working, so I don't think that is a stressful situation for her or for me (as far as the other dogs go). Thinking about it, it is precisely large brown dogs that make her nervous (anything that looks a bit like a Ridgeback). Yesterday we had a very good situation - a lady with a Visla came towards us, and Poppy dropped to the ground, very submissive and nervous, not giving the Visla any eye contact at all. The very nice lady assured me that her dog was friendly, and we just let them get on with it. After a bit of nervousness, and after running over to me for support, Poppy realized the Visla was friendly, and they had a nice sniff and a little play. So I counted that as a positive encounter, and will be on the look out for other similar dogs!
Karen, I have much the same situation with Lady. She's always flops to the ground with very few exceptions, or if she's caught standing she then goes head down and to one side avoiding eye contact. She 6 now so I guess that's the way she will always be. Like you, when she's working it's a completely different matter and she's not submissive at all and in fact will even go into resource guarding mode if a more dominant dog muscles in on a retrieve - very noisey with hackles and much growling. The only time apart from that when she's not submissive is in an on-lead encounter if she feels threatened and then she can go on the offensive if I'm not careful to avoid that situation.
Charlie won't challenge another dog over a retrieve - but he will just get very, very upset and look totally miserable! My poor Choccie boy! The other thing that I've started doing, not so relevant to others in quieter areas, is just giving Charlie a break from having to interact with so many other dogs. I've been driving a bit further to get to quieter areas, where Charlie doesn't have to constantly meet other dogs. This seems to help a lot. Mainly because it seems the more dogs we meet, the higher the chance we are going to meet a horrible one!
Snowie is an intact male and he will always give up the retrieve to another dog who gets there first. And even if the other dog doesn't get there first, if he senses it wants the ball more than him, he just runs along and then hangs back while it gets the ball. Even with teeny-tiny dogs like a Yorkie in the park that he knows well, he will hang back while the Yorkie gets the ball. However, if he really wants the ball and that other dog won't give it up or continue with the game, he will stand there for a while waiting for the other dog to give up the ball, and then give such a loud bark (deafening, although not aggressively) that the poor dog usually drops the ball in shock, then Snowie picks it up smugly and brings it back for more. (Well, I'm talking of the past -- we haven't played ball in a few months due to his back.)
