Ok got our 12 week old pup last week, the breeder previously had him in a playpen half bedding, half paper for toilet. She said this is how I should set the crate up for puppy. So done this the first few days, but after reading Pippa's Happy Puppy book, and various articles I now know this is wrong. So yesterday I set up his crate as per Pippa recommendations, basically dividing it in half, so he can no long excess the paper side he was using for a toilet during the night. The puppy is brought out in the garden lots in the day, sometimes he goes, sometimes not. If not we keep an eye on him, hold him etc. Then back out and repeat until he eventually goes. Somtimes he will hold his bladder for 6+ hours. Usually he will pee every 4 hours or so. So with the new set up of his crate, I took him out in garden for 15mins, no wee, so put him in crate and nipped out for under 1 hour. Can back to him lieing on his wee'd on vetbed. Last night before bed took him out no wee, brought in for 15mins, back out still no wee. Put him in crate, literally as I close the door walk a away for 5 mins to get ready for bed, check on him before I go up stairs he again is lying in his wee. So clean his crate out with simple soultion, change to fresh vetbed, take him out again he has poo out side So put him to bed for 11:30pm, set my alarm for 5:30am, came down to a clean and dry bed. Took him out and had a wee in garden, put him back in crate go back to bed. Back down at 7:00 and he has had a POO on his bed and walked in it. So take him out, clean his paws, clean out his crate put fresh vet bed in. Get kids up feed them, then feed the pup at around 7:45am. Around 8am I put him in the crate for 10mims while I dress kids for school. Go in to get him out, he has POO again in his bed. So cleaned out etc. Looking for help on what to do, as it seems he has no problem with peeing on pooing in his bed.and really don't want this to continue or become a habit. His pops were firm, and not soft. Sorry for the long post. Please help.
Hi there - there is nothing 'wrong' with having a puppy in a playpen, it's just a different method (my new puppy is in a playpen rather than a crate ). From what I understand you say, you previously had him in a crate with bedding at one end and newspapers at the other? So he has already learned to toilet in his crate? If so, I think this will have rather ruined the crate in terms of toilet training for you I'm afraid - as you have found out, he no longer has a reluctance to wee and poo in his crate. I think the breeder has muddled up two different systems - a crate within a playpen, and the puppy leaves the crate to have a wee and a poo, and a crate used to prevent puppy weeing and pooing. At this stage, I'd put a small crate inside a playpen with the door open and allow your puppy to leave his crate in order to wee and poo, and start again with house training. As you can't use a crate, then you need to carry your puppy round if you bring him in when he hasn't had a wee or a poo, and keep taking him back out until you know he is an empty puppy. Having a puppy in an open crate/play pen arrangement means you have to be extra careful about taking your puppy out, because you are relying much more on habit to help in toilet training.
I also use a playpen arrangement for my pups. As soon as they wake, drink, eat, play, anything really (!) take them out to see it they need a wee. If they don't I carry them for a while indoors then try again. At night they have a puppy pad at one end of the pen and a bed at the other, once they start puppy pad ripping they just have Lino ~ but by then they are pretty much dry at night anyway. I don't find toilet training takes any longer with this method Here is our set up ~
Hi Julie, Thank you for your reply. With the small crate open inside a playpen at night, will this help reteach the puppy to not poo in his bed? Also should I put paper out in the pen? Once he stops pooing at night will I then be able to get rid of the pen, and lock him in crate at night? Also I should of mentioned, he was also being "free fed", but as of yesterday he is on 3 meals per day.
Thanks for the reply and photo. I was hoping just to use a crate to be honest, but looks like I'll have to try the pen method. What age do you find your pups have stopped going at night?
It won't teach the puppy not to pee in his bed in itself, but it will give him the option not to do so - hopefully, he'll take that option rather than pooing or weeing in his bed, and over time will hopefully become reluctant to do so. If you now have a puppy that will poo and wee in his bed, you have to give him an option to move away from his bed. I can't see what else you can do, really. Using a playpen isn't a way to house train your puppy. What will house train your puppy is you taking him out to the garden every time he might need a poo or a wee, giving him treats when he goes in the garden, and carrying him round if he doesn't go. If you do this, you will house train your puppy and hopefully he will also be ok in a crate too. I don't put paper in a playpen, I have a sheet of non-slip flooring, which I can mop. But my puppy hasn't had a wee or poo in the playpen after the first couple of days, because I take her out to the garden every hour. This is my set up (I don't use a crate right now, because my puppy isn't yet crate trained - I will move to using a crate once I've finished crate training her. She'll probably chew up that bed in a week or so and then I'll move to using a crate with the door open) . pen by julieandcharlie julieandcharlie, on Flickr
That depends on how long the night is. I take my puppy out at half midnight, and my husband gets up at 5am. My puppy has never had a wee or a poo overnight. My last puppy did go a couple of times overnight, even keeping the nights short like this to 4.5 hours. We were able to start making his nights longer and longer and we were both able to sleep for 8 hours by the time he was about 5 months old.
Thanks Julie, Would having a large crate, put a bed in it and paper one side be more or the less the same thing as having a small crate within a pen? The dog I own is a Boston Terrier, so grow as big as a Labrador, I only have room for a small pen, maybe a third of the size of yours.....
I think this is what has caused your problem, if I've understood you correctly. It's very hard to say for sure - maybe your puppy would have had problems anyway and this is something that started before he came home to you - but I think that there is a very big difference between a playpen arrangement and a bed and toilet within the same crate. I think the problem with having the toilet in the crate is that the toilet is far too close to the bed and the puppy doesn't have a clear boundary to cross to distinguish bed from toilet.
Ah, that's a problem, see the points above. Then, I think the only thing you can do is just put a massive amount of effort in, and only leave your puppy in a crate when he is already empty. This just means you can't use the crate to help with toilet training. Of course, before we had crates, people just used to use the kitchen.....
Thanks JulieT, that makes sense with having a boundary. I will get the pen set up and get a smaller crate today. Do you feed in the pen, or outside of the pen?
We do the same as Julie T, hubby does the 'late shift' and makes sure the pup wees at midnight, I do the 'early shift' and get up at 5:30 for the first week, 6am the second and 7am the third. By the time the pup is 20 weeks we go to 'normal' bed and getting up times. Any accidents are mopped up but even the odd accident soon stops. It has worked well for three pupsters Each has been different in when they became dry overnight, that depends on their bladders more than on what we do. ..
I was thinking that! I don't leave toys in the pen - just kongs and chews. I left a toy in yesterday, remembering your pen, then worried about it, so took it out! I open up the pen (on the right hand side) and sit on the playmat with toys, but don't tend to leave them in the pen.
if your pup now has gotten used to going in the crate, did you try to change out to something different what u put in for him to lay on inside the crate? I mean since he started to go he is used to going on what u put in the crate. And make sure that u scrub it so there's no smell of any pee or poo left. Sounds to me like all you can do now really is to clock him and go out on regulary times. We got millie home at 12 weeks, she needed to go about every 3h. I mixed her kibble with water and let it sit til soften up, then I knew that she need to go within 30/40minutes. She gets her supper at 5pm, I read somewhere that it gives them a chance to poop out before bed. If she gets hungry after 5pm I give her Apple piece or banana. By the age of 14 weeks she slept in her crate from 9pm until 7am, my husband tries to let her out at 5am and 6am but she won't move a muscle for him lol. He's only good enough for her when he lets her up in the sofa. It was very hard to tell in the beginning when Millie had to go, she used to just stare at me and I didn't get it at first. Learned after a few accidents in the house. Now she goes to the door and sit and wait, working on to make her do a sound. You will have to be persistent and don't get mad at the pup, it's worth your patience in the end.
I find they don't start eating/destroying toys and beds until they get their big back teeth. The blankets were stuffed behind the bed because otherwise she'd settle down to sleep there and she was so tiny (3kg) I thought she may get cold. A lovely crocheted blanket always comes up with them - Gypsy still has hers, Twiglet pulled hers apart long ago!
[link removed at OP's request] Ok thanks for all the help. I Have set the pen up, actually made it bigger then I thought, so plenty of room to come out and walk around a choose some where to toilet if needed. I would post up a pic, but can't seem to work out how to do so. Do you leave water in pen during the night?
Seems I've added a link of my daughter, please could you edit it off, as can't seem to edit my posts. Thanks.
Thanks Boogie, I got up this morning at 5:30am and he was clean, will try 6 tomorrow, and if he clean I will stay at 6 for the rest of the week. Hope this pen improves things.
UPDATE: Ok since having a pen and an open small crate at night puppy is doing better. He doesn't poo or wee in crate, but comes out and does it far end of the pen, if I don't catch him in time. His poos are still a bit irregular, and hard to time. However I have just changed his spent the last 10 days changing his food to a higher quality kibble, and this is the fifth day of him being feed 3 times per day schedule, rather then "free fed". I hope things become more regular over the next few days.
