Hello all, I am new to this forum and new to having a puppy. My gf and I rescued a black lab mix from the humane society in June. Cliff is a 7 month old black lab mix, we think he is mixed with pitbull. He is very smart and picked up on house training and crating at night as well as already passing beginners training at petsmart. He's the perfect dog around other people and away from home. But when he is home he becomes a terror. He play bites non stop. We have tried redirecting his attention to a toy or treat, going on a walk, to the park, or a stuffed Kong toy, ignoring him, time out, and even bitter spray. Now we both work retail so some days he spends a lot of time in his crate and I know he has built up energy but when he doesn't spend much time in there he still is pushing us. Now I am very laid back and control my emotins very well but he has upset my gf quite a bit and myself sometimes. We both love him unconditionally and he has more toys and bones than he knows what to do with. Any advice anyone can give that we possibly haven't already tried would be greatly appreciated. Thank you all in advance.
I have just re-read the articles on the main site about play biting, in anticipation of my new pup in October. It's well worth reading every word, not just skim reading or picking bits out http://www.thelabradorsite.com/labrador-puppies-biting/ ...
Thank you. I will read it. I've been skimming the threads and reading that a lot of people have had this problem, well this issue too. I guess I didn't expect it to be this hard. When I was growing up my parents made having a dog seem so easy hahaha.
If you need to leave him for more than a couple of hours could you arrange for a dog walker to take him out, or if that's not possible leave him with more space than a crate. It's true that most Lab puppies bite and being a rescue yours might not have had the best start, but at 7 months I wonder if he's bored and frustrated and is trying to get you to play. You could start teaching him some games with rules - e.g. tug with a release cue, or retrieving. More structured interaction with you could be the way to improve things.
Right now I don't know if we could leave him with more space. He would probably chew something up. We do try to play with him a lot. Toys, ropes, balls, ect but he immediately goes back for the hands, ankles, shorts, blankets and anything he can get his mouth on. We've had him for a couple months now and it doesn't seem to be getting better. But we are going to keep trying and not give up.
Try training him to settle. Do nothing, and be happy to do nothing. I have a new and extremely bitey puppy right now, and I find myself constantly giving her something to do so she doesn't bite me! But all this does is train her not to bite while I'm entertaining her. As soon as I stop, she bites me because that's what gets her more entertainment. So I've been training still, quiet, settle. Don't chew me or the chair or anything else - just chill....
How do you teach that? Hold him and try to pet him calmly? What's your technique? A calm dog seems like a nice thing to have.
There are loads of different ways to train it, with and without food. The problem with training it with food is you can get a 'fake' settle - my new puppy does this already, and I'm having to wait her out.... Anyway, the idea is that the dog settles down (really settles down, not pretends to settle down), and then something good happens. With young, excitable pups, you have to restrict their options somewhat, otherwise they NEVER settle down. Generally, anytime your pup is still, and settled, try to quietly drop a treat in front of his/her nose. To actively train it, one way (not the only way) is to have your puppy on a lead, have a mat by a chair and sit down and wait for the puppy to settle. You might have to move things that the puppy can play with out of the way. Once you have that settle (and it might take some time), you can reward by either getting up and doing something (eg a game, a walk) or by very quietly dropping treats onto the mat (this might cause the puppy to be active again so you then have to wait for the puppy to become settled before you can reward again - and if the puppy looks up, all alert, when you reach for the treats you probably have a fake settle). It helps if the pup has already been rewarded for going and staying on a mat, that gives you a big head start as they see the cue of the mat as a good place to go. Giving kongs on a mat (with you on your chair and the rest of your cues present can really bump start this). You can do the same thing out and about - I use my foot on the lead as my cue. I stop my pup, put my foot on the lead and nothing, absolutely nothing, happens until the pup settles down. Then we continue with our walk/games. Taking your puppy out on walks and doing nothing, sit down and read the newspaper, is a great thing to do. The value of settling and doing nothing is huge - and it can be trained just like action and activity can be trained.
@JulieT you are always so full of helpful techniques! For your "foot on leash on walk" settle, do you wait for Betsy to settle into a down or a sit? How long do you wait?
If on grass, in a training field, I like a settle in a down - head down, really relaxed - Charlie will sometimes do it, Betsy is better than him already. Charlie is particularly terrible at settling (although we've come a long way and he will settle at home and in familiar social situations very nicely - particularly at BBQs and in the pub, which might say something about how long I've spent at BBQs and in the pub compared to the gundog training field! ). Out on the street, Charlie will just stand still, chilled and this is a very reliable cue for him now. This is fine, because I don't think he finds it all that comfortable to sit (he has had cruciate repairs and he has a clear preference to be standing or in a down, not a sit) and it's not the idea to cue a particular position anyway. I wouldn't really expect a dog to lie down on tarmac or pavement. With anything, start in a place that's free of too many distractions. Walk along, stop, put your hand on your dog's collar to bring him/her to a halt (unless they already halt when you stop). Move the lead attachment on the collar to be under your dog's chin so the lead runs directly to the floor, leave enough slack in the lead so your dog can stand or sit comfortably but not enough slack so your dog can wander round and jump up. Just wait. Ignore your dog. When the dog is relaxed and calm, take your foot off the lead and with a cheery 'let's go' (or whatever) carry on with your walk - more actively is the reinforcement for a calm state. Remember that the things you do (hand on collar, direction of the lead, the way you stand becomes your cue so always do this in a consistent way). You can't do this reliably if you dog is wearing a harness, by the way, because the direction of the lead is wrong, and it is difficult to prevent the dog wandering round and rewarding itself for things other than settling. This technique can get hugely elaborate - some people do things like put 'take a breath' on cue (they do this by clicking the dog's nostrils flaring), and some people cue soft eyes and all sorts of things, but I just go with a dog that is calm and relaxed.
Wow - breathing on cue, now that's really something I'd like to see! Yes, this can start around 14 weeks and they soon build up to a nice long settle under the table or wherever ...
I really appreciate everyone's input and advice. One last question on this and hopefully I'll be all set to make it through this trying time lol. Is there anyway to teach to not bite so hard? Cliff has started biting harder and harder. He will even start to shake if I don't pull my hand out fast enough or if I don't have a good enough grip. I like playing ruff (ha) with him and I know he'll grow out of this but his 7 month old jaw is strong and his teeth sharp. Thanks everyone!!
It's possible that in his previous home the humans played play biting games with him - that is, they let him mouth and grab their hands as a game. We got our dog Obi at 9 months and this is what had happened in his previous home. He not been taught not to grab and hold on - in fact he had been encouraged to do it. So what we did was immediately get up and walk away as soon as he grabbed with his mouth. Basically we were telling him that the game is over and the attention disappears as soon as there is biting. And we never played any rough games in those days (we can now because he does not mouth or bite anymore. But for a few months we avoided it). We also did a lot of 'stop and do nothing' training, which you've had a lot of good advice on already. As well as doing this at home we did it a lot on walks. At times we'd sit down on a bench or wall and do nothing. Obi would immediately start to bark at bark at us. We'd say and do nothing until he stopped and lay down. Then we'd get up and keep walking (as the reward). Pretty soon he learned the the faster he piped down and lay down the faster he got to walk again. Over time we gradually made him wait a bit longer before getting up and walking off again. The important thing is to be really consistent in your behaviour towards your dog so that it's 100% clear to the dog that: - biting (or barking) never pays off and is therefore a waste of time - settling, being quiet and not mouthing/biting does pay off.
Ps when I said 'get up and walk away' this means going into another room and shutting the door (leaving the dog behind) so you are totally removing all traces of your attention as a consequence of biting.
Well I have to admit I have been playing with this biting behavior then. I am at fault here. So I guess from here on out I need to not play rough. Now, when we leave him how long should it be? When I have tried before he waits for a little bit then goes and gets into something he shouldn't... Table, paper, blankets, ect.
You can leave him for a really short time - like 5 - 10 seconds. Just to make a very clear link between him biting and then the game ending. When you return it's ok to give him attention again, but maybe do a little bit of training (using treats) instead of the rough game so he's doing something fun with you but which does not involve biting.
Ok awesome. Thank you for the help and advice. I will get better about not playing rough. I will try to use toys and if he continues to go for my hands I will leave the room.
Great Just keep on patiently using that approach. It will take a while (since biting and mouthing has been so much fun for a long time) but he will eventually stop. It will work
Thank you so much again. I will be resilient. Even though I do enjoy rough housing with him, I know it's for the best to not.
