Good morning. Can I get help understanding if and how I should intervene please ? Offlead meet with dog coming towards us Hemi (18 month Choc girl ) will crouch, freeze, stalk, bound up to dog and then be polite (respect space of other dog) and hopeful of play, and is easily called away. SO I have assumed this is her figuring out and processing other dogs and being unsure, young and bouncy. I haven't wanted to interrupt. Should I ? Is it a rude approach ? Is she unsure? If so how ? On lead we use ' look at that' or look at me / sit which redirects and so meetings are calm. What do you think? With thanks.
The stalking followed by a run and a bouncy happy greeting is a normal Labrador thing. My dog does it. Strangely enough, other dogs don't seem to mind it as the stalking is slow and measured (ie not scary), the run is in a curve or zig zag and the whole thing is totally goofy with legs flying everywhere. Other dogs seem to get that his intent is benign. It's probably slightly gawky and uncouth from a dog perspective but it doesn't seem to be perceived as a threat at all. If it's easy to call your dog away and the other dog is off lead then I wouldn't worry. If the other dog is on lead (or seems like the potentially cranky type...) then put your dog on lead and get her attention with food (instead of letting her approach the other dog).
When he was younger, Charlie would lie down, then do a sudden rush at an approaching dog. He grew out of this, thankfully, because a lot of dogs really don't want the rush at them thing. I helped him by discouraging him rushing up to other dogs at all, I'd throw treats to the side to encourage him to turn away from a dog that was also looking uncertain, and to discourage him from doing the rush up thing. He's pretty good now and will ignore other dogs unless they approach him. He hates dogs stalking though, he freezes if a dog starts a stalk, and I've never seen him interpret a stalk as friendly or ok - this might be because of his own experience though, he has had a few bad experiences and he isn't as relaxed around strange dogs these days as he once was. I'm afraid if I see a dog stalk, I'll call it out - as in 'your dog is stalking and making mine uncomfortable, please call your dog'. They never can, but this then explains to them why I'll put myself between my dog and the stalking dog, and the owners then can try to collect their dog at least.
Snowie did the same as a puppy and young dog, always lay down and then slowly approached. I suppose you can say it looked like stalking, but to me it wasn't at all; I thought it was very polite behaviour to make himself small and unintimidating. I also knew he had only good intentions given that he was so happy and playful on greeting the dog. But then, someone said to me: your dog is stalking. I was quite shocked. My friendly dog stalking? But now that I have read the above, I am certain it is just the Lab way. Admittedly, it didn't help that sometimes as the other dog neared him, he'd suddenly leap up in excitement, like Charlie above -- scared some dogs and people. He's an adult dog now and I don't see him lying down much to greet other dogs. He seems to only lie down for older dogs he's never met (it's amazing how he can tell they're older; sometimes I can't -- but I always ask the age). Re the stalking behaviour: my logic tells me that stalking comes from behind. If an animal is stalking another animal, it does so in a way that the other animal can't see it. What's the point of stalking front on? I've seen dogs stalk other dogs, and those times it was from behind.
Lying down isn't stalking. Stalking (to my mind) is a direct approach, head slightly down, a fixed stare (as though on a prey animal) and a slow, deliberate step, with tense muscles - as though ready for a chase if the other dog moves. This can be extremely aggressive and threatening. Obviously, not saying any dog referred to here is doing it in an aggressive way, but some dogs do show aggressive intent in this way.
Harley doesn't like dogs stalking or lying down as she has been attacked 3 times (by collies) who have done this. If a dog lies down she now looks at me, I ask the owner to not let their dog pounce etc as Harley might react. 9/10 I can get a lead on Harley or get inbetween them, but she has growled/barked at one dog where it pounced so quickly I wasn't able to get her on lead/get inbetween them even though I called to the owner. I don't let Harley run up to other dogs whether they are on lead or not until I have checked with the owner.
This is completely different, but Willow stalks Shadow sometimes when she wants to play. She is rubbish. If she had to rely on stalking to catch her food, she'd starve. She stands in the crouched position for ages, staring at an oblivious Shadow, who will be mooching around doing his own thing. Sometimes he bumbles into her, he has no idea what's going on. Generally, though, Willow runs out of patience after a couple of minutes and explodes into an uncoordinated spring towards him, followed by a run away, because she always wants to be the chasee, not the chaser. But, since Shadow doesn't have a clue what's going on, it never works. Love my ridiculous dogs.
I meant the slow walk = stalking. What you describe is exactly what I've seen when another dog is stalking: that stare and the deliberate steps, all very menacing looking. When Snowie does do this approach (as I said, far more frequently when he was a puppy, not so much anymore now), he lies down, then gets up and slowly approaches, then lies down again, then up again and slowly walks, but never with that menacing approach. I think his slow walking is because he's being hesitant. Anyway, like Willow, he would also starve if he were to hunt his prey -- way too goofy and slow off the mark. He once saw a hadeda (bird) in our garden and by the time he'd decided to give chase, it was long gone. Now he just lies on the patio and watches them a couple of metres away.
I have heard some people say that the lying down is part of the prey sequence - eye, stalk, chase, bite, kill - but I see so many dogs do it in a 'hi, I'm harmless' way, I'm not at all sure that it necessarily is so. Although it is often the case that a lying down dog then follows with a mad dash in (often in play of course).
Yes! Actually, now that I remember the time someone told me Snowie was in stalk mode was when he was lying down. Snowie has been stalked by two dogs, both just walking with that deliberate, staring, menacing way. Neither dog lay down. Another dog stalks him, too, and that dog lies down, then quickly covers ground, then lies down, quickly covers ground, bit by bit until it gets close and then it growls at him and appears to attempt to put his mouth over Snowie's shoulders/neck, which is why I find it menacing and don't like it (thankfully the owner doesn't like it either and leashes up her dog when she sees us).
Yes, I think we do Obi's 'stalking' is a slow walk with stops every few metres (standing, not lying). Then towards the end he does the goofy dash sideways, usually past the other dog. Doesn't seem to make other dogs worried (and I do observe carefully). A genuine and deliberate stalk with a hard stare, like a herding dog does - that would be unnerving for the recipient I think. It's meant to be because it's meant to make sheep/cows move...
Thanks all I feel clearer and happier now. Think like so many things it depends on the context doesn't it and I was looking for a set answer All Hemi's movements could describe a threatening behaviour yet other dogs seem to sense it is indeed goofy excitement of the just -about -held -together bouncy kind and well intentioned. I'm not sure I'll ever be able to pick up on the subtle signs they give each other ... but I can watch the other dog's response and use distraction / lead if I feel that's best. Hemi's does go into fix stare with anything new, exciting, scary ...I think of it as her processing face ... and that processing can take a while ! 'Look at That' has helped hugely to relieve the intensity of that. Maybe I can mix this into an off lead greet and see the impact. I'm just wary of interrupting the subtle signal 'dance' between them with my clumsy feet ! X
Yep fallen foul of the "dance "a few times myself. My 2 old dogs used to do it to each other. So funny one would sort of go on alert body stance wait for the other to notice then they would stalk each other. One would then break and run off chased by the other. I swear I could heat them both giggling
Do you think there's a difference between stalking (approaching from behind, I want to catch my prey) and confrontation (approaching front on, I want to do battle and dominate)? Most mornings we meet a bunch of dogs and their dog walkers. All are friendly except a new boy called Elvis. He's a magnificent chocolate Lab, about two years old. From the moment he met Snowie some months ago he's been asserting his dominance. Snowie does not submit so they stand there hackles up, tails held high, not moving, sometimes growling at each other, and once Elvis went for Snowie. We've always met them on the same path so it was difficult to identify exactly how it all started. But today we were walking on a higher path and Snowie caught sight of Elvis and stopped to look. He kept walking along, stopped to look, walked, stopped, walked stopped. When Elvis saw him, he started up the slope towards our path, stopped, approached, stopped, approached, fixated on Snowie. When Snowie saw him approaching, he stopped with hackles up. I wouldn't call this stalking. To me this is confrontation. It's also not the type of approach that ends up in a friendly dash around. Both me and the walker have to call our dogs away or leash them up. Interestingly, this time I noticed that Snowie was only ready to back away when I put myself between him and Elvis. Otherwise, if I wasn't near them, Snowie kept his ground. I also don't like to be aggressive to Elvis, so I try to talk in a friendly way to him and tell him to Go Away. When Elvis hears my voice he immediately looks at me with a friendly face but in an instant fixes back on Snowie with his brow all wrinkled. (I must remember to take treats again!!! When I have remembered, I've not seen Elvis. I am HOPING we can resolve this battle of wills at some point -- Snowie is not able to play with all the other dogs in that group like he used to because he's dealing with Elvis.)
Obi sounds so like Mabel, a couple of ladies walking in the woods with their dogs shout "watch out here comes Mabel" as her "stalking" is followed by massive Hoolie bum tucks. The other dogs don't join in but stand and watch, she runs out of steam and starts sniffing, by which time everyone is roaring with laughter. How I love my butterfly brained furry baby
