Other Threads You May Find Helpful The Forum RecommendsHow to stop your dog jumping up and How to cope with an overexcited puppy I have a six and a half month old lab puppy named Ollie. He is really good at home with just my husband and I, most of the time, but at least a couple times a day he turns into the devil dog from hell, three heads and all! Ollie gets this wild look, flattens himself to the floor, and then lunges at me and jumps away before I can get a hold of his collar. It's like the puppy I know is suddenly gone and his mind has been taken over. If I can get a hold of him and make him sit for a minute sometimes he stops, other times he throws himself on the floor, goes limp like a toddler and starts all over again. When 60 pounds of puppy in a full grown lab body decides to go nuts its scary! I've raised four previous labs and a golden retriever with no issues like this. Of course they get wild on occasion but this is completely different. We've been through one session of classes at a very good training facility that I've trained through before and will be going back through but it hasn't seemed to help with this problem. Ollie does really well on the leash during class and around our property but goes absolutely nuts when I take him anywhere else. Last week he ate a four foot nylon leash, whole. I had to take him to the vet by my self because my husband just had hip surgery. It was all I could do to hold on to him walking him into the exam room and I couldn't stop him from jumping on the vet tech even though she was kneeing him and I was jerking him back with the prong collar. He had surgery and this week has been wearing a cone so my arms and legs are covered in bruises where he has run over me with it. He's also very nervous when anyone comes to the house. My daughter and granddaughter were here for three days and Ollie never relaxed the whole time. Each noise made him jump up and when my daughter, who is pregnant, sat on the couch Ollie leaped into her lap when her phone rang. He doesn't get on the furniture and has never tried to before. I'm at a loss and beginning to think maybe I'm too old to start another puppy. I work with him daily and he spends nearly every waking moment with me (when I'm away from home he is crated and right now he is asleep at my feet) but I am starting to be afraid of him and just don't know what to do. I'm sure daycare would help him but I can't get him there when he's so wild, nor can I really afford to take him. My husband witnessed this craziness yesterday and he started checking out shock collars this morning on-line. That is not a direction I want to go. Help!
Prong collar? No wonder he's in a state and what is a vet assistant doing kneeing a dog?? Do you use training treats? what methods do you use? Was he well socialised out and about when tiny? Have you read the training articles on the main site? At six and a half month he's still a very young pup. ..
I use the prong (or pinch collar) when we go to the vet because Ollie is uncontrollable on anything else. He ignores a chain training collar and turned inside out with both the "gentle leader" halter and a harness. The vet tech did the same thing I do when a dog jumps up. Up comes the knee so the dog hits it with his chest and the off command is given. I use treats and in the middle of a simple sit, down and stay exercise Friday, with treats, he pulled his crazy dog act and nearly knocked me off my feet. We had been working for less than three minutes when it happened and I simply put the treats away and walked away. I've read a lot of the forum and the articles that Pippa writes but have not seen this strange behavior addressed. He is very young, but also very big and strong which is why I need to get this under control sooner rather than later.
Er...really? You are using a prong collar and your vet tech knees your puppy when he jumps up? Sorry, but if turning into a devil dog a few times a day is all the problems you have, then you have got off lightly. This is no way to train a dog, and it's no way to treat a dog. So, that out of the way, what should you be doing? You have to stay calm, be consistent, and not react with punishment, which will not make things better but may make things a whole lot worse. And the next thing is find a positive reinforcement trainer (who will tell you to throw your prong collar in the bin) and get some help. There are loads of tips and techniques that can help with this behaviour.
I won't add to the comments about prong collars, I think the points been made and quite rightly. It sounds to me that he's calm (er) in situations he's most familiar. This means that in order to resolve the craziness in new environments you will have to gradually expose him to the things he finds exciting. Get a mat and teach him to lie on it at home. You want him to switch off when he's on it or 'settle'. You can also put a normal lead on a wide, flat collar and stand on it (keep hold of it too) Make it just long enough so he can stand comfortably but not jump or leap around. Then ignore him until he's calm. When he's calm, take up your lead, move your foot and do something fun - go for a sniff, chase a ball, have a food reward - whatever floats his boat. Then do it again......and again. You can desensitise him to these exciting environments and learn to be calm but it will take time and commitment!
Thank you, Barbara, for giving me some actual advice instead of simply chastising me for using methods you don't agree with. I was beginning to think I had come to the wrong place for help. I understand people don't like a prong collar, we don't use it as a general rule, but Ollie needs to be safe when I have to take him to the vet and up until this last visit he has respected the collar and it has kept him from breaking free from me. He's very calm most of the time at home unless someone comes over or he has one of these sudden crazy dog attacks. I kept him on the lead by my side for three days when my daughter was here and even made her go into the bedroom and shut the door so Ollie could settle down and eat. He lives here, she doesn't, seemed fair. I haven't tried using a mat or rug but we did talk about that in class. We've used the crate in the living room when we had company but I haven't trained for what my trainer calls "place" indicating that that is his place to relax. Thank you again.
A shock collar would make your situation one hundred times worse! Have you tried clicker training? @bbrown has given excellent and helpful advice. Day care could make him more excitable.
Hi Kelly - you sound quite desperate. I am so sorry you are having such problems, but agree there is no place for prong or shock collars. I am no expert, but it sounds like your dog is anxious and this might be affecting his behaviour on lead?? I there any possibility of seeing a behaviourist (preferably a positive training one) who can observe what goes on any possibly give you some specific advice?
Unfortunately, a behaviorist isn't available in our area. I agree, Ollie is anxious quite often and having that darned cone on this whole past week has not helped with that problem. We live in a very rural area and a behaviorist would be a good 200 to 250 mile one way drive from here. Our trainer is excellent (but I wouldn't call her a behaviorist as the previous facility owner was) and I've worked with her for nearly 20 years. She uses positive reinforcement and doesn't advocate for the prong collar but there was no other way for me to control Ollie to get to the vet that day. I talked my husband down from the shock collar because I've seen how an anxious horse responded when the trainer tried to get her to quit cribbing by using a collar on her. He was unable to get close enough to her to get it off and she never relaxed around him after that. We will be going back to the trainer this coming week. I had planned to go last week but I was worried about him getting in and out of the car with his incision. And yes, I am desperate! Thank you for understanding.
The problem with things like prong collars is they can stop working as yours has. The reason for this is twofold in my view. One they don't address the underlying issues of hyper excitement, stress, anxiety, whatever it might be. Secondly many dogs become effectively used to a level of discomfort or pain (if they even feel it in their hyped up state) and you end up having to use more and more force which becomes completely unsustainable. You need to think about this from a viewpoint of addressing the underlying issues using techniques that will build your relationship. I strongly recommend you try and find a trainer who focuses on positive reinforcement. Good luck
When you say you work with him daily, what do you do? I assume it's general obedience - sit, stay, walk to heel etc - which of course he needs to learn, but do you do other things, such as retrieving or playing tug? I think that although it seems scary his launching himself at you is his (inappropriate) way of engaging with you. I wonder if starting some activity like gundog work or agility( obviously very low fences) would help to focus his energy? I also think he sounds quite nervous so could you take him somewhere new some days to gradually get him used to strange people, vehicles etc - and take a big bag of food rewards with you. As soon as you see something that might be alarming to your puppy, pop a treat in his mouth. After a lot of repetition you can give the treat after the dog has seen the scary thing and then eventually fade them. ( I had to do this with Molly in traffic as she lunged at cars but now we can walk through busy streets with no problems and no need for treats.) I would also say that I too find the idea of a prong collar repellent and would urge you to find other methods.
Hmm....I think if it were me, I would work REALLY hard on placemats in your home, and maybe use a tasty frozen Kong to try and encourage Ollie to go there when needed. Make it/them a good place to go, and use them eventually for arrival of visitors etc or even times you just want some space from him. I am wondering whether you have worked on with walking to heel/ on a loose lead. If you are really rural I am wondering if there isn't so much a need for this, if he is just loose a lot. Perhaps a really good programme of training on a lead?? Could that be a help?
You have to realise that to describe using a prong collar on a puppy, and kneeing him in the chest, is not about people disagreeing with your methods, but you are describing things that people find horrific and offensive.
Thanks, Joy. We do work on the basics for a little bit, sit, down, stay and we are now working on "back" both beside me on leash and away from me when he standing facing me. He seems to like that one. We also walk a mile every morning, take several 15 minute rambles in the hay field throughout the day and until he had surgery we were playing both fetch and catch twice a day when it was hot and three times when the weather was cool. We don't play tug because I want him to give me things, not try to hold onto them. I want to take him places to get him used to strange things, but at the same time I can't because I can't control him. This past week was a waste because I was concerned about his incision getting in and out of the car and we couldn't play ball because he was supposed to only have calm, on leash walks. I have had mixed results with treating to distract him from new things because sometimes he just ignores the treats (even chicken and string cheese!) when he gets excited. Sometimes even taking the treat and then dropping it. Someone recommended clicker training and we might give that a go. Thanks again.
If a vet kneed my puppy I would be so so angry! I wouldn't hesitate to show my feelings and I would certainly report them! (Well actually - if anyone kneed my puppy!)
He loves that frozen Kong! He gets one every night after dinner but I never considered using it as a way to keep him on a mat. Good idea. We do work on walking to heel on a loose lead and at home (we have three acres) he does very well, it's just when we get somewhere new. When we were taking classes we went an hour early (it's about an hours drive to the training center) and walked around outside for an hour before class started (doing the stop and go the other way when he pulled method and treats) just to calm him enough to do the class. Oh, and he is not loose on our rambles. We use a Flexi (which I know people also have issues with) so he can range out when we ramble, but a six foot lead when we do our actual walk and training. We are rural but there is a busy country road out front and we are in the middle of hop, apple and corn harvest so there is a lot of truck traffic so I don't let him loose except when we play fetch.
