So, Bessie is 4 months old. I have always had a really hard time with her being crated. I never did it at night because my bedroom is too small for even a puppy crate, so at night now, we're in my bedroom with a baby gate across the door, and she hasn't peed in the room at all - when she wakes up I take her out. But I have from the beginning put her in it during the day while I'm around - in the room, working - as well as out of the room. It took her most of 2 months to get okay in it when I'm in the room working and she's sleeping. She had started to do better with being in it when I wasn't there, and seemed like the whining/howling/crying was mostly when she could see me or knew I was nearby, i.e., for attention. I've been really careful not to reinforce the crying since I figured that out. I've tried stuffed Kongs, the stuffed puppy with a real heartbeat (which seems to help, and she did just bring it to me and the battery is low - I wonder if it helped more than I realize), covering the crate (better than open), working her time before she gets anxious up slowly, clicking for quiet, etc. It seems like sometimes she goes in willingly (I have found bribing her with hot dog or real chicken AND a stuffed Kong works best) and settles and is fine, and other times, she's horrid. Today she was horrid, and so upset about being in there that she pulled the cover off and partly into the crate. It isn't just the crate. I tried an ex-pen, and she yowled and tried to climb out. I tried the baby gate in my bedroom when she was sleeping on the bed. As soon as she knew she was trapped in there, she started howling and trying to climb out over the gate. I have another ex-pen on order, but I'm not optimistic. The crate is in the middle of the living room, so it's "part of" our space, not isolated. Today what I had to do was move a bunch of furniture from my house to my detached shop/garage, using my truck. I put my older dog in the backseat and he was fine. She whined to get at me when I was moving stuff into the garage and eventually climbed over the backseat and sat in the cargo area crying. I tied her leash to a stake in the ground and she howled and yipped for me as I worked. She wasn't happy with any of it. I tried to take a shower with her not crated and she grabbed my glasses off the toilet and chewed them up. I'm at my wit's end. It seems like unless I'm either sitting on the couch or in bed, and thus she's sleeping on me, or like now, she's laying on a rug near my feet, she's whining for me or worse. I feel like this has gotten worse, not better, since I got her at 8 weeks. Her history is that she's a rescue, but mom and pups were surrendered at 3 weeks and fostered well that whole time - lots of socialization and enrichment. I have Control Unleashed and am up to about chapter 4. It's a lot to take in.
Hello, this must be really exhausting for you. Have you tried covering the crate with something when she's in there? Since my puppy was using the crate at night I've covered it with a thick , heavy curtain and she's never made a sound. I only do it at night though, to help distinguish night from day. They are all different I know, I think my puppy is quite laid back (but a crocopup), and I'm sure you will get plenty of advise here from experienced members, but it might help.
Thanks @selina27 - yes, tried covering the whole thing, doesn't seem to matter. Today she did fine for about an hour while I was in the house with her, but barked and howled as soon as I left the house. I went on a walk with my other dog. It seemed like she stopped at some point, but I could hear her for at least five or ten minutes, and she was exhausted and shaky when I got back.
Perhaps try putting her in the crate, leave the house, then return one minute later - go in but don't interact, just let her see you're back. Increase the duration you're gone a little each time. RIDER - I don't crate or have puppy experience so this might be rubbish.
I did what edzbird said with Alfie; i d pop him in his crate with a kong when he was a bit tired in the kitchen then start to load the dishwasher then pop out of the kitchen for 10 seconds then back in but not even looking at alfie just going about my business, and then repeated this over and over again for varying amounts of time sometimes longer sometimes shorter. I found that once he was confident i would always come back i could increase the time more easily. I was worried about leaving alfie at first but I think another forum member told me to do the above and it worked . Love this forum!!
Okay, something I haven't tried!!! Yes!!! Thank you. So, to be clear - you pop them in the crate with a kong, do something in the house, leave the house and return one minute later, no interaction. Do I *then* let her out of the crate - when I return after one minute? Or go about my business in the house again and then let her out - how much later? And increase the "one minute" to three, then five, then ten, then three, then eight, then one - that kind of thing? Or are you saying keep her in the crate and go in and out repeatedly within one crate-time?
I popped him in his crate went about my business left the room then popped back in and carried on with the washing up or whatever still giving him no attention and not letting him out of his crate and then continued to pop in and out. At first I would literally pop out for 20 seconds then a minute in the kitchen then 20 seconds in the other room then increased from there
There is an article here that might help: http://www.thelabradorsite.com/crate-training-your-labrador-puppy/
Thanks. Will try this. I have done this while she's crated, and she usually cries when I leave the room and stops when I get back. But I haven't tried starting with literally two seconds, then back in, or building up systematically. One of the problems is I really need to use the crate for a couple of hours a day most days--to shower, clean up the house, work outdoors, go on a short errand (she comes on longer ones, as most things are an hour's drive away so that would end up being 5-6 hours or more away, too long to leave her), etc. So during those times, she just has to howl it out, and I worry she's developing a negative association with the crate. She doesn't care about the Kongs. When she sees me pull one out she runs away because it means crate time. She won't touch it while she's in her crate, but will eat it when she's out of it, later (also both my dogs have figured out to leave them out for a while to let them thaw! if I keep refreezing them they just never eat them). She will eat some treats and hot dog when I first put her in the crate. The one exception: if I give her an unfrozen Kong in the crate and she's really hungry, she'll eat it, but as soon as she's done with it (less than five minutes), she starts crying/howling.
In the first couple of months, I didn't leave my puppies alone at all (other than during actual crate training). When I had a shower, they came in the bathroom with me. Housework became a training opportunity, and didn't get done as thoroughly as before, but who cares? Similarly jobs outside. If I went out, pup(s) came with me. It's very disruptive, sure, but it means that being in the crate is only done for periods of time that the puppy can manage without becoming distressed. It set them up for a lifetime of being able to settle in a crate if necessary.
Well, she ends up getting into the toilet paper, other stuff in the bathroom, or the other day she chewed my eyeglasses that I had stupidly left within her reach (I can't even afford to replace them right now!). The work I was doing at my shop - there's a bunch of fiberglass insulation that's uncovered on the walls, and she started digging into it and eating it. Outside, I have to stack four cords of wood. I can't just keep her off-leash, and even if I tie her up to a tree on a long lead, she will whine and cry at me the whole time. Then there's my autistic son. He's a lot to manage on his own (16yo) but the puppy jumps on him and bites at the wires on the vest he uses for his breathing treatment in the morning (he also has cystic fibrosis). He then gets very distressed. I want to keep her safe and keep his vest safe (it costs thousands of dollars to replace). And sometimes he can't handle her bounciness when he comes down in the morning to get ready. And sometimes Burke is just bullying her out of frustration and impatience, and I never crated him, so I put her in the crate to give them both a bit of separation. I try to minimize how much I use it, but I do have to pop her in it at times for her safety. I think I would probably completely lose my mind if I never crated her. I do have an exercise pen coming today, and hope to "reset" it (with the crate inside it) as a positive place. Been watching this: and will follow that protocol. But I'm just not sure how I can manage never having her in the crate distressed.
It sounds like you need some help. Do you have family nearby that could help out? Or else there's the option of a puppy sitter/dog walker or daycare.
We did the same - I now have a lifelong bathroom companion (who will burst into the bathroom when she hears the shower if she missed me going in and settles on the bathmat), and a small black dog who follows the vacuum and sits by the dishwasher when she hears it open! @b&blabs do you have a baby gate up to block a safe room at all? We used that with Quinn instead of the crate when were home but needed to keep her out of another part of the house (also used as a pen when she was very small) and left her with a kong wobbler style toy which lasted longer than a frozen kong. She would be too interested in getting the kibble out to notice we were in a different room and then be tired out from the toy and settle better....just an idea.
So, if you haven't done that, you haven't been though the process of crate training your puppy. If you haven't crate trained your puppy, and you leave her to 'howl it out' you'll be making things worse, yes. It sounds like you have already if she runs when she sees a kong because it means crate time. You need to find a way to stay with your puppy, or get someone else to stay with her, until you can work through the process to leave her alone. And by the sounds of it, that may now take a longer time than before she built up negative associations. You might benefit from calling in a trainer at this point, to see whether they can help put things right quicker. Real separation anxiety is not to be messed with, it can seriously affect the quality of life of both dog and owner. Best of luck with it.
Okay, let me be clear - I have built up time in the crate systematically using the "click for quiet" protocol on this site, and taken her out before she is distressed/howls/whines. But I have never been able to get past me leaving the room or house for more than a couple of seconds without her crying/howling/whining -- except for some of the time, I can't figure out the rhyme/reason. And I didn't build up the time of me leaving the room/house - I just built up time in the crate. The "click for quiet" really depends on one being nearby to keep treating - and I realize now that she learned to be quiet while I was nearby, not when I was out of the room. Unfortunately @snowbunny - I have no family nearby and I live in a very rural area with no doggie daycare or any options for care for her. @QuinnM15 - I tried putting a baby gate across the bedroom door as that's how we sleep at night and she is fine (but I'm there). But during the day, she will howl and cry for me and try to get out over the gate. I returned the ex-pen I had because she tried to get out of it to get to me. I just bought another one and am going to try again now that she's older. But literally nothing I do will settle her if she wants to be with me and has to be away from me - whether that's tying her to something outside, using a gate in a room, using an ex-pen, or a crate. Heck, even in the bathroom, I've showered with her in there - she literally has to climb into the shower to be with me, or she will try to destroy things in the room (e.g., the glasses). I'm open to using a trainer; unfortunately the only one I know of is almost two hours away and thus extremely expensive as I have to pay for her travel time. My closer trainer (worked with her with my older dog) moved away. Although, hopefully the trainer who is teaching my puppy class ("only" an hour away) can help. She said she'd send me an email with everything she could think of that I could do to help get her acclimated to the crate. Thanks for the ideas; I don't mean to shoot them down or be negative. I'm just very limited in my options - solo mom with high-needs son, no one else at home, ever. Most of my neighbors/friends work FT out of the house so aren't around to lend a hand. Feeling pretty frustrated and upset right now.
If you really don't have anyone who can help you, I think you need to seriously consider if you're able to give the puppy what she needs by yourself. You obviously already have your hands full with looking after your son, so it's not surprising it's difficult for you. Puppies need a lot of attention and, from what you've said, you're just not in a position to give her as much as she needs. I think you absolutely have to call in some professional help in the first instance, but, from what you've described, I think you should also seriously give some thought to whether she would be better off elsewhere.
I've given her a ton of attention and time. I work part-time from home and have lightened my schedule these past few months. I spend hours with her. My son is at school from 9am to 5pm. I wouldn't have gotten a puppy without knowing I could give her the time and attention she deserves. I think it's pretty unrealistic to never have to put a puppy in a crate, or behind a baby gate, or in an ex-pen, for more than a handful of minutes. It's been two months since I had her and I have worked through the training and click for quiet protocols on the site. I still can't do anything or go anywhere without her being distressed. She will even climb out of the back seat in the car to get to me while I'm driving. That's gotten better, but still happens if the journey is too long. I worry that anyone else wouldn't be able to give her what she needs, either, plus I'd be reinforcing her fear - her mom did abandon her. Plus I love her. Is this separation anxiety this young? If so, why?
It sounds to me that she's just never been taught that it's ok to be left alone. Everytime you're putting her in the crate you're re-inforcing her being scared of it. We had a very similar situation with our pup, but the way I understood it was that click for quiet meant you left the room. You build the time up - if she starts crying instantly when you leave the room you wait for a pause, quickly click then go in with treats. That's what we did with Stanley, popped him in the crate - went out the door into the next room, 3 seconds/4 seconds etc. They're crafty as well, he seemed OK with the front room door so we thought we'd cracked it. But then when I went into the garden he started barking again. So we had to restart it with the back door. This took a good few weeks, prior to that we had about 6/7 weeks of crying. It wasn't a short process and it took a lot of dedication, including making sure he was never left to bark to only hold positive associations with being left alone. We had about a month of no life. It was worth it though, now he couldn't care less where we are as long as he's got a Kong. I'd also try and make the kong have positive associations again, reintroduce it in a different situation so she doesn't associate it with the crate.
So you need to get your puppy ok with being in the crate when you are right by it, then move further away, then duck out of sight for just a microsecond if that's all you can do, and so on. Building up to leaving her for a few seconds, then a few seconds more, and so on. It could take days, or even weeks given what you've said - it sounds like a problem has now become established. When we get dogs, it can work out to be problem free, or it can be tough. Dogs can have behaviour problems, or health problems, that can turn our lives upside down, and be extremely tough to deal with - that's what we signed up to when we got a dog. But there is no shame in saying that because of other pressures in your life you can't cope with it, that's perfectly understandable. Regardless though, the puppy has to have someone that can deal with this, otherwise her quality of life in the future will be poor - dogs really do have to be able to be left for a bit without getting into a state for their own well being.
I really don't think anyone on an internet forum can say whether it is separation anxiety or not. You have said you can't give her the time she needs to build up positive associations with the crate, and she's been left to howl, meaning she's been left afraid. You've said that you have to leave her in there for extended periods without having got her happy with shorter periods first. This is why she's anxious. She's not been properly crate trained, as per the articles and advice you've been given. With an anxious puppy you just have to give her the time, while you are training her to be alone - meaning she has to come to the bathroom with you, and you need to make sure it's safe for her to do so. You have to make allowance for her to be with you all the time, until you have cracked her being alone. You've said you're unable to do this. This is why I'm questioning whether you can give her what she needs. It's not unrealistic at all to do just that for several weeks. You've said you've not left the house, so you've not trained her to be alone. So you have to start at the beginning, and it may take longer because she has learnt that the crate means she's going to be left afraid. This is what you need. It will take time and effort and more than likely outside assistance in the form of paid help/trainer if there is no-one else you can rely on.
