Where does it say the bitch is less than a year old? I agree that's a no-no, most are are at least two before being bred. But I don't see where it says that.
We have always looked for health certificates, and also field or hunting titles for both the sire and dam. I don't see a good reason to pay close to $1000 for a pup that doesn't have some better than average genes. I prefer also seeing both parents, but with Cooper we settled for pictures, since it was a 7hr drive each way. We did get to see video of the pups, and also they brought the two Chocolate girls to Portland and we got first choice between them. While most breeders here give 1yr health guarantees, I can't imagine ever giving a pup back unless it was truly a disaster. We just get to love them too much no matter what.
Yes, of course we do. I love Charlie to the moon and back. But - and it's a huge but - having a dog that needed double cruciate surgery - total bill in excess of £20k - and the knock on impacts of his care, and the knock on other joint problems which restricts what I can do with my dog...these things basically meant I changed my job, and my career ambitions to care for my dog.....so, for me full heath tests are essential and I would cheerful throw people in jail for breeding dogs without them. Or worse - yes, worse than jail if you breed a dog without health tests is fine. Bringing back the death penalty for breeding a dog without health tests is fine by me. Not that Charlie's parents weren't health tested. They were, and had excellent results. I'm just saying anyone that increases the risk deserves to be...well, hanged, basically.
@Karen yes I saw that but to me it didn't necessarily say the bitch was under one year old. @kat751 how old is the bitch?
Double cruciate surgery. I feel your and Charlie's pain. My boy also had 2 TPLOs. I jokingly called him "my new car for the next 10 years." Though the cost was well worth it as his knees were good as gold after surgery. It's just horrible to see them go through it. In Brogan's case, he tore the second knee exactly one month after being cleared for regular activity from the first surgery. It was six months recovery for each knee, so essentially one year out of his life with no ability to run and play like a normal 4 year old dog. He also had spondylosis, ED (no HD thankfully), thyroid issues, poor eyes, allergies... the list goes on. He was a rescue puppy, rescued by the police from a dog-fighting ring. He was bred to fight and die young, so any health considerations were of course moot. On the other hand, he lived to 13 while my wonderfully-bred-from-the-perfect-breeder first dog (with perfect hips/elbows/eyes/heart/conformation/temperament) died of liver cancer at 5 years old. Sometimes you just roll the dice and get what you get. It has been a rough decision (one I'm still making) to get my next dog from a breeder and not from rescue. I wouldn't trade my 13 years with Brogan for anything. I really believe in rescue and fostering. But I'd really like my next dog to have the best possible chances to be healthy and play and run pain-free for as long as possible. That's what I'm hoping to find by researching a good breeder who strives to improve the health and temperament of their breed. Not sure if I'll find it, but that's the goal anyway! This is not a happy face (it could have had something to do with the hat, though) - Brogan after his second TPLO
@Snowshoe She told me the bitch of the second litter was 2 years 8 months. No idea about the other bitch.
I'm starting to worry now. All this talk of operations and poor health I have also been researching cockerdors and cockerpoos thinking along the lines of hybrid vigour???
I cannot see that having puppies will give the bitch confidence! Confidence comes from genetics and experience I would have thought. Maybe if the bitch was in a different home she may be more confident, but I do not believe the act of giving birth will alter her nature one iota. I could be wrong of course!
I would also be careful with 'hybrid' dogs. They are just cross breeds, and come with their own health issues from both sets of breeds which can increase risks. Often people who breed 'designer dogs' dont do any testing because the dogs are wanted regardless. I too was looking into Springadors, Cavachons, Labradoodles but when you realize you are putting poor puppies at risk its not as appealing. Sorry if it seems like Im raining on your parade, just speaking from experience. Dont worry too much, people are trying to help you find a puppy who has been bred correctly. to reduce any pain or heartache for you and your future pup x
Most dogs don't have these problems. You can do whatever you can to minimise the risk, but sometimes the dice fall in such a way that you have awful bad luck. That's why you need to keep the CoI as low as possible and the EBV as high as possible, to reduce your risk. But, whatever breed, or mix, nothing is guaranteed. With F1 crosses, you still have to do your research. You have to ensure that the same health checks are carried out on both sides and you potentially have two lots of diseases to test for. Things like dysplasia are still just as big issues in F1s. Take the Labradoodle for example. Labradors and Standard Poodles both have a BMS of 14 for hips. Labradoodles have a BMS of 13. Not that dissimilar. There are some good breeders of so-called "designer dogs", so I don't want to appear dismissive, but there are also a huge number who are breeding for the buck, so you have to be just as thorough with your research and appreciate that you may not truly know what characteristics of each side you're getting. If they're not F1, you may have a better idea, but there is far less data around them, and, of course, you won't be able to check things like EBVs on the KC website, since they're not registered.
By the way the median scores for the hips for Labs, Poodles and Labradoodles are 10, 11 and 11 respectively. Some people argue that the median is a more meaningful figure to use than the mean.
Most Labradors are perfectly healthy. But when it goes wrong it can be very distressing for owner and pet. I suspect that on Internet forums there are more people than normal who have had problems - they need the support!
I didn't mean to freak you out - honestly! Any dog can have problems, any dog can NOT have problems. It is good to be aware of what can go wrong and decide if you want to go the breeder route, purebred, mix, rescue, shelter dog, whatever. Each decision has positives and negatives, risks and benefits. One of the reasons that I decided on Labs (after having had Rottweilers for so many years) is that compared to the other breeds I researched, they were overall healthier and had health issues that I felt like I could deal with. As opposed to, for example, Greater Swiss Mountain Dogs (which I love) but have a high risk of bloat, which is deadly within hours if not treated by surgery. All large dogs can get bloat, but the higher occurrence in Swissies just made me feel that I would constantly worry about this and I personally couldn't handle the risk. A shelter/rescue group pup/dog would be best for a total mix mutt if you are going for "hybrid vigor" (and lots of research supports that this in indeed at thing). I don't really trust breeders of fakey bakey designer dogs to pick the most healthy dogs to breed. To me, the whole "cockapoo"/"chug"/ etc. thing is just an excuse to charge wacky prices for a backyard breeder doing it for money. And sadly a LOT of the puppies bred by these hybrid breeders end up in rescue or high-kill shelters, at least in the US. It's sad. The exception to the "fake hybrid" thing may be Golden Labs or Labradoodles bred as part of a legitimate guide dog program, but those aren't made available to the public (at least not that I've found so far). Just to add to your confusion (sorry ) let me add that here's my track record with mixes/purebreds - it's pretty much a mixed bag: Toy poodle - purebred, rescue from a puppy mill - epilepsy, lived to 16+ Rottweiler - purebred from excellent breeder - no significant health problems at all until he suddenly died at 5 from cancer Rottweiler Mix (- ikely mix with Lab or Shepherd, rescue from dog fighting breeder - ED, 2 torn cruciates/TPLOs, allergies, dog reactivity, spondylosis, thyroid abnormal, poor eyesight, lived to 13 Pit Bull/Cattle Dog mix - rescue - torn cruciate/TPLO, lived to 16 And even with that parade of "stuff" above, it was totally worth it, each and every time. Really, really.
I've had 3 labs so far and 2 have Been healthy and 1 wasn't . The illness was an unusual one not one that Is tested for and I think unavoidable He still lived until he was 14 and a bit and had a good life. I look for dogs who have all the recommended tests and a low col . It is daunting but I like labs and took my time finding the right dogs. I think you did the right thing to worry about this woman I,m glad you have walked away there are definitely better options for a new friend. My oldest dog is now 13 and is in amazingly good health. Her breeder was excellent and very caring. He tested all his dogs . My 3rd dog is from a different breeder and she was just as careful. I know there is no real guarantee but making sure the parents have good test results and temprements has worked for me. All dogs can have problems but it seems to be people trying to make money from breeding pups that are making things problematic. Good luck and trust you instincts
Even when you found the right breeder, a lot of things can still go wrong....Our Finn is from a litter whose mum and dad were health checked. So far so good. We should have been more conscious of the fact that his mother went ill. Mastitis, a very bad case. They were after a week separated. The mum was harnessed and was allowed to take care of the babies. But when they can't give milk, the urge to raise them went away. The breeder then tried grandmother to raise the pups, grandmother had litters a few years ago. That didn't work. They had to be fed by hand, after 3 weeks he got porridge etc. The breeder tried to do her best, but wasn't enough... Finn never learned the dog language. That was the first 2,5 years of his life a problem. Even now when a dog shows him he don't want to play, or body language to him, he couldn't care less and goes on. That what happened I think when he was bitten by the Dane.... We went to classes with him, had several meetings with behaviorists, nothing will work, well at least now he is a bit more treatable, he will be three on Monday! What I mean to say is that even if you find the right breeder, you must be aware of these kind of circumstances and then still be able to say no when something happened. We couldn't....
My first breeder had this problem with Doug's litter. Mum had to have an emergency c section . She couldn't feed the pups so the breeder his partner and their son bottle fed the lot. Doug grew to be one of the nicest dogs he had no problems other than an over attachment to nipples or anything nipple shaped too.im sorry you have such a hard time with Finn is it just the fact he was hand reared or was he isolated too?Doug had 10 brothers and sisters so he went through the normal litter rough and tumble, so had access to the learning he needed to function well. Finn sounds a lucky boy to have you. I hope you can find some way to help him, but it sounds like you've done so much already
