Hi all, I have a 10 week old Lab called Lola, who I have now had for a week. She's settled in really well so far and early training seems to be going well - until we get to night time. The crate training isn't the issue as such, it's more when Lola doesn't go to the toilet after she's eaten in the evening (I've waited up till midnight trying to get her to go before she goes into her crate for the night). This leads to her messing in her crate during the night, leaving her really distressed. We've been advised to not go to her when she cries, but seeing how distressed she gets, there is no way I can just leave her wondering if she's had an accident or not. If I go down every time she cries to see if she has had an accident, will this make her think this is all she has to do to get me to come to her? On the nights where she has gone to the toilet before, we've had the inevitable 30 mins of crying before she falls asleep for the rest of the night with no further issues. If anyone could offer any advice on the following, it would be greatly, greatly appreciated! I've tried feeding her different amounts (and making her evening meal a bit earlier) for her evening meal and balancing the rest of her daily allowance over her morning and midday feeds. Is there anything I should be doing to get her to go the the toilet before she goes to bed? I've also tried sitting her on her training pads and taking her outside on a regular basis. If we cannot get her to go to the toilet before she goes into her crate (I've sat up till midnight waiting in the for her to go in the past), is it OK to leave her crate door open so she can get on to her training pads? Probably worth noting that she has already been excellent on these. Her crate is in my kitchen where I can close her in and she hasn't even remotely attacked yet. Any advice would be gratefully accepted - absolutely love having her around. Just want to make sure I am doing everything as well as I possibly can!
Hello there If you are leaving a puppy in a crate overnight you need to get up before the puppy needs a wee or a poo. There is no getting round this. It doesn't matter that you have waited up until midnight. If your puppy needs a poo at 2am, then you have to get up and let her have a poo. No, of course you don't know whether your puppy needs a poo at 1.30am or 3am - that's the disadvantage of leaving your puppy in a crate overnight and you have to deal with that. It is a bad thing that your puppy is pooing in a crate overnight. This will damage your puppy's instinct to keep her den clean, and make toilet training much harder. If you can't work out a schedule such that you can get your puppy out of the crate overnight for a pee and a poo - before she starts whining - then it is best to have your puppy in a crate, so she can move away from her bed to have a pee or a poo without soiling the place she sleeps. Best of luck with it.
Yes, ten-week old puppies can very rarely hold their bladders and bowels overnight, so you have two options. One is, you need to set an alarm for every couple of hours to take her outside. You can gradually stretch this time out each night, so that she goes longer and longer. The alternative is to use a pen arrangement (I'm sure that's what Julie meant above in the last sentence) so your puppy can move away from the sleeping area to go to the toilet. This means you get to stay in bed. From what I can gather (I used the first method), the second method doesn't delay toilet training in any way - and is vastly preferable to teaching your puppy that the only option is to toilet in her sleeping area.
No expert here. I tried to work out the most realistic meal schedule for us at home. We feed approximately every 6 hours. Breakfast is around 5 AM. Lunch is around 11-12 PM. Dinner for Sparky is a little early around 5 PM. I figured that will give us plenty of time for him to have him poo before he gets crated at midnight. Usually he would poo within 1-2 hours after dinner. We were still taking him every hour on the hour. If he peed and no poop, we'll try again the next hour. If he still didn't we would exercise him a little bit and he would go.... twice in a row. I guess we have been lucky that he never once had a poo accident in his crate. Pee on the other hand is a different story. Also I limit the treats after 8 pm. When he first came, we also made a big deal when he pooped and peed outside. He was never really keen with treats when he was going potty. You can certainly try that. Praise and treat when he does go outside. Then he will learn that if he saves his poo/pee outside he gets alot of food and attention.
Thanks for the replies so far. Probably didn't word it amazingly the first time around. I had tried getting up with her during the night to let her out, but this didn't seem to work either (she'd go in between being taken out) but thinking about it, I should probably cut down the time between checking on her until we get it right. Hopefully my original post didn't make it look like she was being left in a soiled crate at night! I'm more than happy to get up as many times as it takes to make sure she is happy. Would just like to get the toilet before bed thing cracked as I think it would help her in the long run if she did. She's going reguarly and going on her training pads/outside during the day without any issues. Thanks again for the help everyone.
Yes, if that's the case, you need to make it more frequent and then build the time back up again, slowly. If she's already gone when you get there, reduce the time again. It's tiring, but it works My two (adults now) often don't go before bed time, so it doesn't really matter in the long-run if you don't get a habit of emptying before bed. In the winter, we get in from their last walk at about 6, and they usually don't need to go again before the morning.
My boy, Zeke, is a hugely food motivated dog and this is how we trained him, anything and everything he did/does that is good he gets a treat and praise. We also feed Zeke his meals in his crate so the crate is a good place to him. I even toss a couple treats in as he goes in for the night. (the treats are about the size of a small fingernail, not much at all but he enjoys them) As others have mentioned early on raising a pup is very time consuming and you need to be consistent.
Just have to say that quote from the 2ndchanceanimal centre doesn't seem like good advice - I think it is outrageous advice that a dog can be left 9 to 10 hours without access to a space to go to the toilet. And if this quote is advising leave a dog in a crate for 9 to 10 hours, then that's horrifying. It is not ok to leave a dog in a crate for the length of the working day. Just imagine how you would feel if you were shut in an equivalent space to a crate all day, day in and day out. Your joints would ache, your back would ache, and you'd go nuts. Plus you'd spend the end of the time desperately worried about having to wee or poo in your bed. I reckon it's the same with dogs - only difference is that they can't tell us that's how they feel.
Hi Boogie - we're feeding Lola her evening meal at 18:30. We actually left her crate open in our kitchen and closed the door last night and she seemed a lot happier. Since doing this, I've also noticed that she is taking herself into her crate a bit more during the day. Even left her for two hours today (first time I have done this) and came back to her asleep in her open crate with no signs of any problems at all. She's definitely keeping me on my toes, but it's very rewarding when you can actually see some improvement made (I'm sure there's plenty more challenges coming my way over the puppy years!)
The idea of the quote is for a very general gauge on how long a dog can hold a pee, according to age, caged or not caged. I have found as Zeke grew older he was able to hold it longer, just as they mention, it's been about an hour per month of age.
Well, no, that's not right - in that is not what the quote you posted says. You posted a quote about holding pee followed by a quote about leaving a dog in a crate. I clicked on the link and it says on that page (this is the full quote of the second bit of what you quoted) : "How long can a dog be crated in one session? The rule of thumb for crating is no longer than one hour per each month of age, up to 9 to 10 hours maximum (the average work day). Each session should be preceded and succeeded by an hour of aerobic exercise." This is terrible advice, I feel. It is not appropriate to crate a dog for an entire working day.
Yes that's the full quote, and I told you why I posted it, for the hours/months ratio, however I left the full quote intact. That said it does mention exercise before and after, but again, it's not the part I was focused on, you don't have to agree with it, I'm sure most folks don't agree with the crate for that long, but I looked at it as a rule of thumb for hours between pees, even if just free in the house and not crated at all. There are things I don't agree with, like "training pads" to me it teaches the dog it's ok to pee in the house, but if it works for you great. Each of us does the best we can, it's a constant learning process. I'm not here to argue with anyone. I offered something I found, in part, helpful to me. Take what you like and leave the rest.
No, I don't think I'll take what I like and leave the rest. About the rest, I'll speak out and say 'I think that's a load of rubbish' when I think that's a load of rubbish. Because if people don't do that, other people might think 'oh, ok, I can crate my dog for 10 hours'. I agree it doesn't need to be an argument though.
Funny actually kinda trained him that when a milk bone comes out, he goes in the crate. But yes, early on, all his meals were fed in the crate, e.g. kongs, tossing treats inside, etc. He has expanded to being fed in his pen and now he can eat upstairs in the kitchen. Around 9 pm after I take him out for his last potty, he goes right into his pen into the crate and waits for me to close the door and a treat. Sometimes if i get to him late when its bedtime, he's already inside. During the day he sleeps in his pen area. I want him to feel that the pen is an extension of his "den" and not a mess in it. He has been pretty good lately. I guess everyone is right when saying something clicks at 4 months!
