We left our 12 week old with the breeder for the day while we went to an all day event. When we dropped him off the breeder wasn't home but left us directions as to which kennel to place him in. When we went to pick him up, the breeders wife mentioned her husband thought he was a bit fearful and asked us if we were properly socializing the dog. We mentioned that at times (like at the vet) he tends to be fearful and shy but when we have people over he's totally fine. She said he wasn't air fearful when he was with them. We try to have company over every weekend to meet and interact with the puppy, including another lab (who Caleb followed around and played with until he got hit in the face with a tail and took it personally). He greets everyone with excitement and with the exception of the lab after getting hit has not been very fearful. We take him to puppy training classes at Petsmart as well. The trainer doesn't allow the puppies to interact yet but he does really well there. Is there something we are doing wrong? We are afraid to take him too many places since he's only had two vaccinations and the vet said to wait until he's four months when his shots are done to socialize him. I'm hoping he was just scared of the breeder because we stuck him in a run and left him alone so he was scared. When we took him out he was very excited and happy (but did gravitate to the breeders wife, who referred to herself as the first mommy). Thank you in advance! It was hard enough to drop him off for the day but now I'm even more worried that maybe we are doing this wrong.
It's possible that your puppy hasn't met enough strange men, perhaps? If you think he is showing signs of being a bit fearful of men, then just try to get him to meet a few extra strange men that are going to be gentle and give him treats. I didn't overdo the socialisation with my new puppy - quite deliberately, because I think my first puppy was way over socialised and lost all caution around new people, dogs and things. I don't want a puppy to be fearful, but neither do I want a dog that charges into any new situation like an over confident fool (which my older dog certainly is). My new puppy* was a little wary of an old lady the other day, so fine, she'll now meet a few extra old ladies. So long as you act promptly, a little bit of caution from a puppy isn't a disaster. * I really must stop calling her my new puppy! She is 6 months now!
I don't think you're doing anything wrong at all. Puppies have different temperaments just like children (and adults). Libby was/is very well socialised, I couldn't have done much more but she's still fearful with some people, dogs and situations. I think it's only natural. Like @JulieT says you don't want 'an over confident fool' either! It's a shame your trainer doesn't let the puppies interact yet, this was vital in our class from the beginning.
I don't think it's desirable for fearfulness or shyness to persist - just for the avoidance of doubt about what I said. More that it's ok to sort of 'calibrate' socialisation rather than go all out to overdo the socialisation. I don't want my puppy to stay cautious, just I'm ok not over doing the socialisation and when I see signs I haven't quite done enough in an area, address that promptly.
I take my pups out twice every day (carrying them) - not to meet people and other dogs, traffic etc - but to see them. They are not allowed down, except in dog free areas, until they are 17 weeks old. But it's important that they experience people, animals, traffic and everyday outdoor things well before this. Socialisation is becoming accustomed and unafraid of sights, sounds and smells. It isn't about being 'sociable'. Our dogs are naturally sociable!! ...
I also think your trainer is right not to let the puppies at your class interact. While at class your puppy is learning that he is safe while there are other puppies and people around him, and he is learning that all good things come from you. I went to a puppy class organised in a similar way and thought it was very useful.
Thanks everyone! We live in the middle of nowhere so we don't have many options for any sort of organized dog interactions. It also means it's hard to get him into town to meet people and see cars and sounds as that requires a bit of a drive, and is becoming even harder now that the weather is getting colder and not as many people will be out and about in town. In my puppy's defense, the breeder intimidated me too! He's the big Marine type. With only two vaccines, can we walk him around Petsmart before class to introduce him to people and dogs? Or is that still not safe? We are the only owners in our class to carry our dog and often get laughed at for it. Our vet said he could walk into the vet office the next time we bring him in, but then again the dogs there are all vaccinated or being vaccinated. On the other hand there's often poop outside Petsmart...
You really need to wait until all your vaccinations are complete before putting him on the ground. And, if I were considering putting him on the ground, the last places would be places where there are lots of dogs around, such as PetSmart and the vets. You can still take him out and about to see the sights and sounds, just carry him.
Sounds like you're doing great! Libby is 17 weeks and she only goes to puppy classes at Pet Smart once a week (they get 5 minutes at the end of class to play and let off some steam), my son's Boxer comes over about once a week (they're best friends) and there is a 1 year old lab around the corner that stops by sometimes when she's out for walks. No dog parks, no roaming Pet Smart/Petco, no Lowes, etc.
It's not about other dogs, most dogs speak 'dog' very well! It's about getting them to see children, old people, people in hats, traffic, you name it - while they are still at the stage where fear isn't an issue. That way they don't become nervous dogs around children/traffic etc, a large, nervous dog is not what you want when crossing a busy road or going to a park etc. Here is an excellent article - http://www.thelabradorsite.com/how-to-socialise-your-labrador-puppy/ ...
Good Morning y'all...hoping for some guidance with my lab pup she is now 14 wks, and fearful around other dogs?! Heres a quick background... We brought her home close to 8 wks...prior to bringing her home we had visited her twice on the wkends. She seemed to interact with her litter mates fine. fast forward we haven't had her around any dogs due to her vet instructions and vaccines...but still walked her in our neighborhood and she would see other dogs on the other side of street and would hear dogs in our neighbors backyard and she seemed a bit scidish..and bolt on leash, i figured she was getting use to all the new surroundings and sounds, we made sure to stimulate her as much as possible even though she didn't have all her vaccines i would take her to open fields and do training sessions as well...and my home is quite noisy and busy we have 3 boys! fast forward to her getting all her shots and i figured lets introduce her to a 2yr male pup is about her size, she seemed very uncomfortable and and was started to look fearful..and when he went to sniff her bottom she freaked out screaming yelping he didn't really get that close and was not aggressive my son came running out that she had got attacked she was so loud and knocked down a fence and bolted....i felt horrible I have tried introductions on leash off leash...just trying to go on walk with other dogs she is not having it but have not pushed her this has been over the course of a few weeks with 2 dogs...So the other nite ny sons best friend got a 10 wk old golden retriever so i thought hopefully that might work shes younger and smaller, well she again put her tail between her legs shaking bolted and managed to get her harness off and ran out the back...and this pup didn't even get close enough to sniff her!! I also took her to petsmart a wk ago to have the presence of dogs but not necessary interact with and she freaked out there as well?! The only other time she is terrified like this, well not as bad but pretty bad is in the car she gets so upset so fearful... I am at a loss...what am i doing wrong, what am i missing, i wish i knew what she was thinking and if something previously happened, with her and another dog before we picked her up?! I know every dog is different but my 14 yr old never had social fears and i just don't now how to help her...wow this is a long post Thanks for taking the time to read this!
I am sorry but i kind of disagree here. I don't think it is natural for a puppy to be fearful. I think it is in the nature of puppies so they should inspect, explore, but not be fearful at all. Fear comes from bad experience so you need to compensate somehow with good experiences. If he is afraid of other dogs, expose him in a controlled way to more dogs. If he is afraid of people, expose him in a controlled way to more people. Luckily we are taking about a lab because the fear can turn sometimes into aggressive behavior. @taysel I would not be so concern about vaccination. I never was and never will. I think socialization is more important. It is a hard decision i know but imo it is better to have a socialized dog with bit exposure to illness in the first few weeks of life than to have a scared or even worst an aggressive dog.
Not always. Some dogs are just very sensitive. It doesn't mean something bad has happened, they can just be naturally nervous of new experiences. My two were scared of children. Nothing bad had ever happened, but there you have it - they didn't like the way children move and make noise. They're very sensitive dogs, and so is their sister from the same litter, even though she was brought up quite differently. She is also scared of kids, despite having far more exposure to them. A lot can be down to the way they're wired. Labs have the potential to be aggressive, too. They're not all boisterous, happy-go-lucky, bomb-proof "typical" Labs. The most sensible thing is to take a local vet's advice on this because it depends very much on the prevalence of things like Parvo (which, let's remember, is a puppy killer) in your area. You don't need to put your puppy on the ground outside in order to socialise it.
I'd echo @snowbunny's words on vaccinations. It's not only parvo that is a killer but giardia and a host of other stuff. It kills puppies and it kills them fast. BUT location is such a huge factor. In California it was positively rampant on the beaches and tracking it from affected sand on the beach back home was a big risk. My vet (seconded by my breeder) had me walk through bleach before going into my house or never ever wear my outdoor shoes indoors. However, when I consulted my vet in Germany about bringing home a new puppy, she said don't worry at all - just take him out from day one (eight weeks old) and let him walk on his own four legs. And this is a very cautious woman. For example, she told me that I shouldn't take my next puppy to Spain with me until he's three years old because of heart worm and leischmaniosis. But she said in the town where I live in Germany, she quite literally never sees a case of parvo because everyone vaccinates. I think I will still be cautious (old habits die hard) but I thought the difference was really interesting. You can totally socialize a puppy without putting him on the ground, anyway. It just takes a good back to keep carrying them around! Or maybe some sort of push cart - I may have to try that since I'm 14 years older than the last time I had a big old puppy to carry around everywhere.
I think you are confusing some of the things. Giardia has nothing to do with this. To present, there is no vaccination against Giardia. In fact there are many unknown things when it comes to this parasite. Back to socialization, i personally consider it more important than the life of the puppy itself. When a puppy is not socialized you will have to deal with some potentially bad behavior all his life and because of it you can run into all kind of probems yourself as an owner. Say he bytes some kid, or even worst.. invalidates someone..
Libby was fearful of some dogs when we got her at 9 weeks. She was the 'shy' one in her litter and didn't really interact with the other puppies much. Fast forward.......OMG..... she is the total life of the party and loves everyone, especially kids. She and my son's boxer are best friends. I do notice that when we go for walks sometimes she is still freaked out when she hears a dog barking. But she's totally different than she used to be. We made a point of having people over for dinner, tv, etc. to get her used to other people without having to take her out. We still haven't tackled Lowes and only go to PetSmart for obedience. No dog parks -- they're full of giardia here in Oregon. She's really a different dog than when we first got her.
Again, it depends so much on the dog. Over-confident dogs can be over-socialised, and they can do just as much damage by being nothing more than friendly - jumping up, knocking someone over, breaking bones etc - as a dog that is wary of humans. Mine, who never had the opportunity to meet hundreds of people, just because of where we live, combined with the fact they are naturally nervy, will bark at people, and those people will then stay away. You know what? That's not the impression that most people have of Labradors, but they're never going to cause injury by being over-enthusiastic. They're not aggressive in any way. People have a very limited, inaccurate, view of what socialisation is. It should be exposure to different sights and sounds, to different textures and smells. Not necessarily anything to do with meeting people and other dogs. With my new (show bred, hopefully very confident) puppy, she will be socialised by learning not to interact with people. I don't need her to think everyone and everything is her playmate, quite the opposite. She needs to learn to be quiet and composed around other people and animals. Which means 9 times out of 10 she doesn't get to interact with them. This article gives a different slant on socialisation: http://www.wylanbriar.com/buying-a-pup/rethinking-socialisation-building-self-control/
There are a few things now going on in this thread - there is a danger people are talking at cross purposes. We have the OP who had a puppy at 12 weeks a bit shy of men, then we have Quinn with a 14 week old puppy seemingly not coping with other dogs at all. I think these things are a bit far away from each other on the spectrum, really. One is not all that much of a concern, the other is really quite concerning. I think ALL dogs need an adequate level of socialisation such that they are not scared of new things - this has to be before they are 12 weeks old (give or take). After that, you have an uphill battle. So there is something to be said about not being too over cautious about the vaccination schedule. I do think though that some pups are bold, and some are cautious, and the socialisation needs to be tailored appropriately. Maybe a pup on the shy end needs to be encouraged to approach every available person and take treats. Do that with a pup on the bold end, and you can quickly have a nightmare pup that lunges and mugs every person s/he meets. Actually, my bold puppy has never been encouraged to say hello to people, and she is still a nightmare for trying to mug everyone! It just depends. But at the end of the day, you are better off over socialising a bold puppy - and then dealing with the annoyingly time consuming 'don't jump on every person/dog you see' training - then you are under socialising a shy one. Because once fears set in, they are much, much harder to deal with. Plus, in my experience, it doesn't much matter what you do with a very bold puppy. They are still going to jump on every dog and person they see anyway. Regardless.
@snowbunny i don't disagree with most of your points. I do agree that socialization is a combination of exposure + controlled behavior. What i want to emphasize though is that some social behavior (like fear) is hard to control because you cannot or it is super hard to stimulate the dog not to be afraid of something. In fact (not sure if you ever looked into this) it can take years or entire life to teach a dog not to be afraid of something (that is because proofing the technique in different situations is almost impossible when it comes to fear). On the other hand having a dog jumping for joy on people is quite easy to prohibit.
Yeah - I was taken by that article. Until I met Betsy. It didn't make a blind bit of difference. Not one jot.
