On Sunday Bailey and I went to dog training in a place we have trained before. It was the first class of five. I should have taken him home before we even walked through the gate! We have been working hard on loose lead walking, not lunging at people, dogs and birds. He isn't perfect but we are getting there. On Monday he pulled like a train to get through the gate and wouldn't even respond to his name. He then dragged me to our place in class then simply would not settle. I don't think he listened to a word I said, and I couldn't even look at the trainer never mind listen to her. In short it was an absolute waste of time and only succeeded in getting both of us stressed. At the end of the class the trainer said it's time to desex him as it will calm him down. He is 9 months old and I don't think that is the answer, I'm hoping to leave him entire for as long as I can. We don't want to breed from him but I don't want to chop bits off yet either. What do people think about desexing for behaviour reasons? The only thing that went right all day was me making to the car before I burst into tears
I can totally relate to the situation. We went to some adolescent classes and Harley was a nightmare. Her lead pulling was horrendous, she wouldn't listen, it was suggested we take her away from the group for a brief walk to calm her down. I felt like an idiot who had never spent a day training her! It took until week 3 for her to calm down enough to get her to do anything, even then it wasn't great. I'm glad I persisted though as I did learn quite a few things. I think the majority of us on here have felt like that at least once. It does get better. Harley is now 3 and even though she still pulls occasionally (in new places) she is so much better and calmer. There is hope yet x
Seriously, one class where he is acting (let's face it) like a pretty normal 9 month old puppy and the trainer says the answer is to cut his balls off? First, all this tells me is that she's not a very good trainer if that's her only suggestion. Maybe she was having a bad day as well and will come back to you next time with a more helpful suggestion (and frankly an apology), or maybe it's time to find another trainer. Second, even if you ran off tomorrow and had him neutered, it may have zero effect (and certainly would have little effect in the short term). I'm very outspoken about not neutering a dog young because my boy was neutered very young (8 weeks) as a matter of law (i.e. not my choice) and he had many physical and perhaps behavioural issues as a result, including the cancer that finally killed him (5x more likely in neutered males). But I know neutering has its place, that it's a controversial subject, and that everyone must do what they feel is best for their own dog and circumstances. However, what I've seen from the many dogs I've known over the years who've been neutered specifically for behavioural reasons is that it does not work at all. They were dog-aggressive before the snip? Now they are dog-aggressive with no balls. That's the only difference. It sounds like you were having a hard day anyway, and had a natural reaction (being quite upset) to an incompetent trainer. Stick to your guns, find another trainer if needed and do what you feel is right for your dog in terms of the neutering and/or timing of neutering. And his behaviour WILL get better... he's entering the terrible teens for dogs, so it's really normal that you're going through a rough patch.
I feel your pain! This was me; not just at puppy classes, but several times at agility (which he ended up LOVING). So many times in both settings I felt I spent the whole session just stuffing treats in Pongo's mouth in an attempt to keep him quiet and not disrupting everyone else. Misery. But he and Bailey are not exhibiting "bad behaviour". They are being adolescent Labradors. It might be difficult behaviour for us to manage, but (in my opinion) absolutely not a reason to cut their testicles off - certainly not at 9 months old (I think the best advice lately is to leave neutering until at least 12 months or longer, until they have completely stopped growing, so that the operation does not interfere with their physical development). If Pongo's behaviour had been such that it actually put him at serious risk (for example, if he started to abscond repeatedly and head off towards busy roads; if he became impossible to manage in situations that were unavoidable), then I would consider neutering him. Otherwise, not. I still feel that way. It all crystallised for me at agility class once. Pongo was impossible that evening, desperate to sniff at all the lovely smells, run off to corners of the arena where there was something that needed investigating, completely ignoring me and following his nose. I was at my wits end. The trainer said that if I wanted to get him to focus on me, I should have him neutered - because that would mean he'd be less interested in sniffing and smelling. It struck me that what that really meant was: deprive him of the ability to do what he really loves doing (sniffing) so that he'll do what you want him to do (run round an agility course) instead. Not so much different from the old practice of blinding canaries so that they sing more often. As soon as I thought of it in that way, the answer was blindingly obvious to me. But oh @BevE I do feel your pain! Hang in there, it does come right.
Ah like Ternaya says so many of us have been there .....we've all had a class or 5 that has gone exactly like that.My first set of obedience classes at 5 months were useless if you were to measure our progress in the class ,I was the same as you,completely focussed on Dex ,hardly lifted my head to the look at the trainer but I went away and practised the excercises at home and made progress there.At 8/9 months I went back and did another set of classes....and they went a lot better but there was still excitement/ lack of attention / humiliation going on.....Write this lesson off ,practice at home away from distractions and go back next week with your head held high.If it's too stimulating for Bailey in his position in the group certainly move away and give him some distance.If you stand at the other end of the room just treating for calm you are still getting something to take away from the class.Baliely might not be doing the excercises there but he is practicing impulse control ( VERY IMPORTANT for strong enthusiastic Labradors) and you can watch what is happening to go away and practice .I would certainly not consider giving Bailey 'the chop' in the hope of 'calming ' him down .....training really is the answer and for that you need persistence and a thick skin xxx Don't be disheartened ,Better luck next time and sorry it made you cry xxx
Chin up it does get better, Bailey has hit the teen years. We have all had days like yours. If you had him neutered I don't think it would make any difference to him, but that is only my opinion.
Definitely don't chop in the hope it will sort out this behaviour issue - it won't. Coco is a rescue - they neuter all dogs. When we were introduced to him, he had not long been neutered. They said "he is so boisterous, this should calm him down". Nope! Only training (and maturing to some extent) can calm him down. At our first or second class, Coco was SO "difficult" we spent the entire class, sitting on a stool in the middle of the room, while the other dogs trained around us, just trying to get Coco to concentrate on ME. I felt such a failure, but it was actually a valuable exercise (with hindsight!). He still lunges and barks - though much less - and yesterday he was used as a demo dog in class to demonstrate sit (wait) recall.
I watched a video the other day that gave an analogy of what dogs (and especially teenagers) go through as something similar to Auditory Processing Disorder. This is where people can't concentrate on one thing because their ears and brains are wired in such a way that all the sounds they can hear - the person talking to them, the TV on in the background, the people talking ten feet away, the cars driving past, the aeroplane flying overhead, the wind in the trees - all take the same level of priority as each other, so they become completely flooded with information and can't filter. Ever been on the phone and you couldn't concentrate on what you were saying because there was an echo on the line? It's like that, but with every noise in the surroundings. So, dogs are a bit like this, except, for our dogs, it's not just the sounds, it's everything they can smell, see, taste and feel as well. Everything is flooding in on their brains and they're just not capable of processing everything at once. Filtering takes a huge amount of practice and, until we've set them up in situations which help them practice, we can't hope to have them be able to filter us from everything else. Some people are just obsessed with dogs' balls. Leave them be
I wish you could have been with me last night. It was a supper - a Guide Dogs fundraising event. All you described here was happening - pups pulling like trains, lunging to get to each other, not settling, barking - you name it! The only good dogs there were the qualified guide dogs, who looked at the pups with quiet disdain. This behaviour is NOT unusual for a nine month old pup when other dogs are around. All these pups are angels when on their own and when working. Please don't cry. Please, please find a more understanding trainer. ((Hugs)) ...
Wow, really interesting. I think this will help me be more understanding when my next dog becomes a crazy mass of adolescent scatterbrain!
I'm sure it's an over-simplification, but it makes sense at a broad level. If we can think along lines like this, it changes the focus very much from "the dog isn't listening" to "I need to help the dog filter".
Thanks to all of you I really don't want to have him desexed at this time-or may be never! I too think it will do nothing for his behaviour. He is a teenage hooligan and we'll get through it together with his "bits" intact. I was surprised this trainer suggested desexing and really disappointed. I almost feel that to go back to class without desexing him would be wrong somehow, like I am ignoring her advice. Bailey is the only Lab in the class and all the other dogs were behaving really well so I felt that the spotlight was on Bailey and me and we were giving quite a show! Thanks again to everyone
You need to find the right trainer. One that looks at a teenage Labrador with a novice handler and knows this is normal and then a) gives you some practical tips and techniques to help you cope there and then b) a longer term strategy that improves things over time and c) has you leaving the class feeling motivated and happy - not in tears. You are in the wrong place, is all.
We have the same problem with Stanley. He gets so excited and ruins riot when we first go in. It so embarrassing in a class full of cavapoos and schnauzer's. Usually all quite judgemental. It's easy to be smug when your dog weighs the same as Stanley did at 10 weeks old!! The trainers completely understand though and try and give Stanley more room so he's more focussed on me. They spend extra time with us as well as they can see that my confidence isn't great and I get embarrassed and unsure. Hopefully once you firm the right trainer you'll start feeling better.
.....or, that you've considered her advice, taken other expert advice too because castration is a big deal, and your understanding is that the latest evidence and thinking is strongly against unnecessary neutering and very ambivalent about its efficacy. So no, you won't be neutering Bailey. But you do appreciate the opportunity to practice skills that are particularly challenging for young Labradors such as focus around other dogs, and that is what you would like to do most of in this class, thank you. And could she perhaps suggest any strategies that would be particularly helpful for you and your particular dog?
I've been on the other side of that fence many times. I always had the only Rottweiler in class and often the majority of the class was filled with hyper Labs and pit crosses. I never EVER thought, "oh, that's a bad dog" or "oh, that person stinks at training." I thanked my lucky stars for having the most comatose dog in the room, but I always had a lot of admiration for the people dealing with their more challenging pups week after week with grace, fortitude and a great big old dose of humour. The cool thing was to see those same puppy "scoundrels" advance through the higher levels of training and do just great. You'll make it!
