Below you will find an extract from an email I received a couple of days ago. I am seeing more and more questions along these lines. Both in my email in box and right here on the forum. And I confess, it concerns me greatly These things tend to go in trends of course. A few months ago, it was underage puppies. Endless emails from people with four or five week old puppies (or in some shocking cases younger) that were sick, going bald, wouldn’t eat, etc. Now it seems to be 'home alone puppies and dogs'. Here is the email I received this morning from a concerned new puppy owner How do you feed and care for a puppy if you are not there? It’s a little bit like asking someone to teach you how to knit without needles, drive a car without touching the road, or grow vegetables without water, isn’t it? I find myself at a loss for words. I seem to be forever saying to people who are not listening - perhaps you are not ready for a puppy? This emails follows hot on the heels of a number of posts in the last week or two from new puppy owners who are panicking at the impending, or actual arrival, of an 8 week old puppy in a home where there is no-one available to look after that puppy during the hours between 8 in the morning and 5 or 6 in the evening. Or who are experiencing problems or challenging behaviour from their dogs while they are out at work for 6-8 hours It isn’t so long ago that the prevailing view on any internet forum you cared to visit, was that no-one out at work all day had any business purchasing a puppy. Anyone proposing to leave a puppy alone all day would be ’shot down in flames’. I don’t want that to happen here. The idea that working folk should never own a dog is not a view I subscribe to, as I believe it is entirely possible to raise a puppy and work full-time, provided that you can afford to pay for puppy care. Just as many working parents of the human kind pay for child care. And as long as you are able to provide whatever care is necessary to prevent your adult dogs becoming distressed, or a nuisance to your neighbours, while you work Dog creches and dog care facilities abound these days, and unless you live in a very remote rural area, the chances are you can find someone to care for your dog during the day. Either by leaving the dog at a nursery/creche type facility, or by getting dog walkers or dog sitters to come in during the day to play with or exercise your dog. However, the concept of purchasing a puppy, or bringing home a rescue dog, without making any prior arrangements for that dog's care during the day disturbs me. Where did the idea that a puppy can simply be placed in a strange home and left alone for nine hours a day, every day, come from? Is it that we feel everyone has the right to a dog whether or not they can afford day care? Is it that some people feel a dog doesn’t suffer from loneliness in the way that people do? I stress I am not ‘anti-kennelling’ or 'anti-working dog parents’ - indeed, I have kennelled my own dogs at times. I recognise that some adult dogs are fine being left to sleep away the day, provided they have access to ‘bathroom facilities’. My view is that in a properly built outdoor kennel and run, some adult dogs will be very happy with this arrangement, especially if they are kennelled with another dog and given lots of attention in the early morning and evening. Other dogs may be more of a challenge if left outdoors for long periods. One of my own labs, as she has aged, has taken to barking at neighbours or passers by and cannot be left outdoors on her own for long. So I do understand this problem. It is a simple matter for me to bring her indoors as I work from home. However, if you work away from home, shutting the dog indoor is not necessarily the solution. The dog prone to barking that is left at home while the family works is often deprived of access to out doors and I find this disturbing too. No-one, canine or human, should be denied the opportunity to empty their bladder for nine or ten hours in a row. It makes me cross my legs just to think of it! Some people who work all day sleep with their dogs, and I think that is a good thing. Especially for those that have only one dog. The dog has your close company throughout the night, dogs need close company with their family. This is a social animal. But for some dogs, this simply isn't enough. Labradors are a particularly social breed of dog, and my view is that they may suffer greatly if left alone for hour upon hour. This extreme loneliness may result in behavioural problems, soiling in the house, destroying furniture, endless barking or howling. That’s not just my view, that is well recorded. And for what? So that the exhausted dog owner can arrive home after a long day at work, to a sad and demanding dog that needs two hours of exercise, some training and some company, when all his master and mistress want to do is put their feet up in front of the TV I don’t know what the answer is, but the number of people posting up to ask the good folk on this forum,( or to email me for advice) as to how to raise a puppy or care for a dog without actually being a part of his life,is really quite depressing. Labradors are not like cats. They do not do well in situations where they are left alone all day and where their owners try desperately to ‘make up for their absence’ on a weekend. My personal feeling is that a dog is not usually something that can be put aside for the working day, and picked up again at the end of it. Puppies are a particular worry because their needs involve a great deal more attention at frequent intervals throughout the day. And while some working parents go to huge lengths to be with their puppies all day for the first four to six weeks, many it seems, do not. I do have an article, on the main website, on raising a puppy when you work full-time. You can find it here. http://www.thelabradorsite.com/combining-a-labrador-puppy-with-full-time-work/ However, I would also love to incorporate some of the thoughts and ideas of the good folk of this forum. And I think this is something we should discuss on the forum, separated like this, from a specific person’s problem. Is it possible that we can we talk about this without labelling anyone or judging others. Just looking at the issues and ways around them? Can we discuss how people who are desperate for a dog might manage to own a puppy and work too? Even if they cannot afford puppy day care? Can we talk about alternatives for people who really are not ready for a puppy but long for daily contact with a canine friend. This forum has without question the kindest and most considerate membership I have ever come accross online. If anyone can help with this challenge, it is you. Can we talk about the best way to respond with compassion to people who arrive in the forum looking for support in this situation and find themselves feeling attacked or judged for taking the course they have chosen, and which is not working out for them or their dog. I’m not sure if we can, but I think it might be worth a try.
I dont want to be judged but we have put the following arrangements in place for our puppy and they seem to work for him. We waited five years before we got Alfie and only got him because I am currently having 18 months off work to complete post graduate study. I will however be returning to work full time in September when Alfie will be nearly two. Before Alfie was even born we had already interviewed several and engaged one dog walker. Already Alfie goes out with his dw once or twice a week already when I am in university for longer than an hour as I want him to get used to her and going out with her. I also put considerable time into making sure he is comfortable at home alone by building up time slowly, recording him and trying to make it just a normal part of his day and routine. When I go back to work we have already put in place the following arrangements (and have had several trial runs but are of course prepared to alter it if Alfie needs us to); Monday - walk in the morning before work 40 minutes, kongs and breakfast in his treat ball- group walk 2 dogs - 2 hours -afternokn snack kongs - training and one to one play when home - tea time Tuesday - walk in the morning 40 minutes, full day daycare with dw and 2 other dogs. Wed - 40 min morning walk - oh work from home am - group 2 dogs walk 1.5 hrs - usual evening training Thurs - morning walk before work - full day daycare Fri- walk before work - treatball breakfast and kongs - lunchtime groul walk with dw - kongs - usual evening training. Sat - gundog training - 1.5 hours I havent put them all in but he also gets kongs, treat balls and hidden treats when left. I dont think its true that people who work shouldnt have a dog. I completely agree that dogs need social interaction and company. I adore my dog and would do anything necessary to keep him happy.
I don't work quite full time, but have recently been promoted so now do 32 hours a week. When we got Harley over 3 years ago, I worked 20hours a week. I took the first 2 weeks off work, then only worked 10 hours a week for the next 2 weeks. I then started doing 2/3 hours at work, an hour home for lunch, back to work for 2 hours. I done this for several months. I used to watch her on the webcam and she was in a crate. At 5 months old we left her in the kitchen and employed a dog walker twice a week when she 6 months old. By the time she was 9 months old she had the run of the house when we were working and she never chewed anything. I work literally 5 minutes away from my house so didn't have to worry about traffic. In January my hours upped so my week has changed: Mon - I work 1pm - 8.30pm. Dog walker has her from 1-3pm. OH home by 5pm Tues - I work 9am - 12pm, come home from 12-3pm to walk and play with her, then go back to work from 3-6.30pm. OH is home by 5/5.30pm Wed - I work 9am-4pm. Dog walker has her 11.30am - 1.30pm. Thurs - I work 9am-4pm. Dog walker has her 1.30am - 1.30pm. Friday - I work 9am - 1pm then am finished for the week. I do occasionally work from home and am lucky that my employer is very happy for me to work flexible hours and occasionally work from home. This is really helpful especially if Harley is poorly or my back is bad. On the rare occasion I will be doing a long day 9am-5.30pm, Harley will go to day care with my dog walker. I occasionally put her into daycare just to give her a bit more company. It really is possible to have a dog and work, but does take a lot of planning and of course the expense, but to me, Harley is part of my family and I don't want her to be bored and lonely.
As one of the owners who introduced myself as a working animal parent I would like to post here too. I have already said in previous posts that many, many years of planning went into the preparation for getting Harley, but we soon released there is no perfect preparation. I have already described some of the techniques we use to keep Harley stimulated during the day and I want to offer the additional explanation that we reside in a small city in South Africa. We do not have dog walkers as easily available and we do not have one dog day care facility available in our whole city. Most people in our country have more than one dog, if they have dogs, and the ideology is that they must entertain each other. We decided against getting two puppies mainly because we wanted to develop a bond with Harley only and we wanted to be able to dedicate our resources to her. And I really do want to stress that at this point we have a friendly, relaxed and well-adjusted puppy. I am well aware that things may change very soon and that we may have trouble on our hands. So we have planned and put measures in place so that we can stimulate, feed and observe Harley during the day as much as possible. We have a housekeeper who comes in twice a week for two weeks in the month and once a week for the other two weeks, so on those days Harley has companionship for the whole day. DH and I take half days whenever we can. And then when we are home Harley is with us and her feline brothers the entire time. We would love nothing more than to have a schedule where we can be home more but at this point, it is not possible. So far our precautions have worked out and Harley is well-adjusted and there are no behavioural problems but that may change at any time and we may dearly regret the decision we made to get a dog.
I have a friend that has shared ownership of her dog. The actual owner is her niece, a stay at home mum with kids in school. They have the dog (a lab cross) at home with them from Monday to Friday and the dog is only alone for a couple of hours in total over the five days. Then, the school kids have sport all weekend so my friend picks up the dog on a Friday after work and drops her back on a Monday morning on her way to work. This arrangement suits both families perfectly as my friend works full time but devotes her weekends to her dog (they have recently achieved their track and search grand champion title). On the other hand, her niece and the kids love having their family pet during the week. The dog, of course, is spoilt rotten in two houses and spends very little time alone. Obviously this set up wouldn't work for everyone but is a great option for some
While not a puppy, a friend of mine has a dog who simply cannot be left alone at all. I've written about Mickey here before and I do think with some training she COULD be left alone for short (1-2 hours) periods of time, but the reality for the last two years since she was rescued is that leaving her alone isn't an option. Yet my friend works from 8-6 every day. So Mickey has a similar thing to what @Emily is talking about above: 6:30-7:15 Walk with her person and her 3 other dog siblings 7:15 - 10 Stay with "auntie" number one, which is me when I'm in Germany (though I usually keep her until early afternoon) or another friend who has her own physical therapy practice where she brings her own dogs daily 10 - 6:30 Stay with "auntie" number two, who has a bead/hobby shop where Mickey happily hangs out with auntie #2's dog, employees and customers all day 6:30 get picked up by her person and have another hour walk with her 3 other dog siblings Then a few other assorted aunties to take up the slack if anyone else isn't available or if my friend needs to go shopping or do any other errands. It's complicated and a lot of work for my friend to co-ordinate everyone on a daily basis, but Mickey is happy as a clam and we all like taking our turn as Auntie. I don't think I would have thought of this "it takes a village" approach as I don't like asking people for help/favours, but the truth is that we all like it (especially Mickey) and it does indeed work. Second story (again not a puppy) was that our dog walking group last summer found out about an adult dog who was in a house where he was alone all day. Someone else knew an older woman who felt she was too old to take on a new dog, but missed having a dog terribly. The person who knew the owner of the dog co-ordinated with the person who knew the older lady and - Presto! - new auntie is born and the dog spends the day with lady and goes back home at night. Again, these are arrangements that are pretty hard to figure out to begin with, but work great once it's sorted. Personally, I would LOVE to be doggie auntie to more dogs...even a crocopup!
We got Rolo after only a few months of moving into our new home. My OH had never ever owned a dog but I always had dogs. I done plenty of research on how we would manage him and my employer is very kind and allowed me to take Rolo into work. My OH also owns his own business and had a premises where he could take Rolo too. I took the first two weeks off work so Rolo could adjust to his home then he began coming into work with me a few days a week and the OH the rest of the time. Fast forward a few months and he outgrown every crate i was able to fit in my work and became less of a sleepy puppy. My OH started having troubles in work and was able to spend less time looking after Rolo. So i looked at dog walkers and daycare. He orginally went to daycare 2 days a week, OHs work one day a week and was at home for 1 day with walks and playing twice a say from either myself of family. One day i was late and he had messed his crate and i found this irresponsble of me and now he goes to daycare 3 days a week. I did not want to stress him ot by him potentially messing his crate again. I havent decrated him yet as we have a very expennsive kitchen and im just not ready too yet! He now goes to daycare 3 times a week and is at home half a day per week and still gets seen to inbetween those 4 hours. Preparation is key and also plan daycare and caring cosys into any budget. It isnt cheap bur worth it and only fair for your dogs.
So, here's the million-dollar question. If you work away from home all day; If you don't have the opportunity for day care or dog walkers; If you have no friends, family or neighbours who can spend time with your dog... So, if your dog is going to be alone for 7+ consecutive hours, let's say for four or more consecutive days each week... ...should this exclude you from having a dog?
Technically no, I don't think it should exclude you from having a dog but I can't imagine someone actually considering having a dog in that situation.
Such a tough question. I have to say, just the past three weeks of going to shelters here and Spain and my answer would be that for these poor dogs, a situation where they would at least have a safe and clean home, good nutrition and medical care, companionship for several waking hours daily, through the night daily and "full time" on non-working days would be absolute heaven compared to the lives they live locked up. On the other hand, when I had fosters, I would not adopt them out to people who worked full time and planned on leaving them alone for 8+ hours a day. More than once, potential adopters complained about me to the rescue's management, including a lady who was a tech millionaire, lived in a McMansion and thought she could be gone 10 hours a day with a young active dog as long as the dog had a really nice Orvis bed. I got teased about it by the rescue group members, but since I was up front about my own criteria and was willing to keep a foster until I found the the right family and pay for all care myself, management didn't hassle me about it. If you take the rescue dog thing out of the equation and in addition a person is not willing to have a dog walker, doggie daycare or the "it takes a village" approach, then - no, a dog is not really for you. Anyone with any understanding of dogs would in fact exclude THEMSELVES from having a dog in this case. People of course still do take on dogs like this, but I think it is (1) dog newbies or (2) people who come from a culture where dogs are seen more as semi-disposbale livestock than furry family member. I've never had other types of animal companions, but it seems there must be some type of animal out there who would be much happier than a dog in these circumstances but still provide the human with the companionship they are looking for.
Fiona's question gets to the heart of the matter here. But it's not a simple equation. Part of the problem lies in defining how long is too long. And that will depend on the age and temperament of the dog. And Emily's point about taking into consideration a rescue dog's previous living conditions is a good one. Not many people would think a dog better off living permanently in a shelter than in a working home with a loving family to spend evenings and weekends with. So it isn't straightforward, especially with adult dogs..
Part of this is about cost isn't it? It might be interesting to start a thread on the actual costs of keeping a Labrador, as a sticky for prospective new owners. People often focus on the purchase price of a puppy, when in reality, that's just the beginning.
OH's brother and some of my friends leave their dogs for 9 hours 5 days a week without a second thought. I can't deny their dogs seem happy enough, are well adjusted and loved. (But they are all older - 8/9 years old). I just personally don't agree with it. Me and OH both work full time. I work Monday-Friday 9-5 and OH works shifts. So quite often it works out that one of us is around for Stanley. When OH's shifts fall on days through the week, Stanley goes to daycare. He used to also go to daycare when OH was on nights through the week but since he's a bit older we've changed the arrangement. I do a training walk with him on the morning, lots of mental stimulation and games to tire him out then leave him around 8.45 with annexe big king (I'm always late for work ) then either a dog walker or OH's dad comes in around lunchtime to give him another walk and leaves him with another kong. Then OH gets up around 2.30/3pm anyway. So he's probably left for about 6 hours with a hour or so break in the middle. It's still longer than I would like but the only reason I agreed to it was because OH is still in the house. So if Stanley did start barking or anything like that OH would hear. So far he hasn't heard a peep. If that changed then we'd have to re-think our arrangement again - the most important thing is that my little boo is happy with his life. Our monthly budget has taken a huge hit since we got Stanley. We spend approx £150 - £200 a month on daycare and dog walking. The only food that doesn't give him a runny tummy is £60 a bag. His pet insurance is £30. Then there's all the different expenses such as training classes, treats and toys - even just peanut butter on the shopping list because he's the only person who gets it. But its worth it to have him, because he brings so much more happiness into our lives than anything else and me and OH adore him more than anything in the world.
YOu know people use to put dogs in the back yard all day all night and just have them inside for those few hours in the evening and a little in the morning and the dogs coped just fine. I was told start as you intend to go on and being inside with you at night DOES count as time with them as well. And I noticed when I was sick that the dogs would have the first 'active time' for that hour or so in the morning between us getting up and up going for the day. Then they would go and sleep most of the day and then in the afternoon about when we came home would be the time they'd wake up and be all active again. Puppies sleep a lot - so once our puppy by the second day showed she was just fine on her own all day (the older dog could access the other side of the baby gate but was probably sleeping elsewhere in the house) thats how she was left all day. With a puppy pad and fake grass in her pen in the laundry and later full access to the laundry blocked by baby gate with toys and a frozen kong (plus water) she is fine. If she has to go during the day she would go on the puppy pads and now as she's older when she had accidents or was sick it was on the fake grass away from her blankets & toys. When we get home its outside and then perhaps spend time out there and then out for a walk and then after a walk its chaseys around the back yard or in her clam pool etc What I actually find poor taste are posters shaming someone into thinking they should give their puppy back to the breeder because they work full time. Thats just wrong - the dogs will cope just because you dont agree with it dont shame someone into thinking they shouldnt have a dog.
I think the costs sticky would be a good idea Daycare is £10 for half a day and £18 for a full day! Vets fees plus insurance and then of course you have to factor in potential cost ontop of a holiday for kennels or care.
Just because people used to do it, doesnt mean its right nor does it mean the dogs were fine with this. We cant possibly know or understand a dogs mind. I dont agree with dogs being left for any length of time without owners considering some form of care and interaction its irresponsible categorically. You wouldnt leave a young child, they would survive being left doesnt make it okay. If they were left for 8plus hours a day and just fed and watered and allowed to wee and poo you would see serious under development and problems. Same applies with a dog im afraid.
I was told that a adult dog was like a 3 year old child. Well I wouldn't leave a 3 year old child on its own, but that is just me.
