Sorry if this question is kind of the same as all my other questions - but I think I'm more confused than ever! And sorry it's so long. I am still having problems with understanding how to improve our recall and stop in the presence of exciting sniffs, and I am getting a bit depressed about it after a disastrous walk yesterday. So, I understand from total recall that to proof the recall, you begin to ask for it with gradually higher levels of a specific distraction, making sure that she can't self reward from the distraction if she ignores the recall. So I can understand how this works with something like other dogs - you can work on recalling whilst being gradually closer to another dog, and can have her on the training line to stop her actually getting to the other dog if she ignores you. But how does this work with sniffing? On the occasion that indie gets into a very focussed sniffing session (I assume, animal scent), I want to be able to recall her, and currently she ignores me. How do I work on this? I don't know where the exciting scent is until indie starts frenzied sniffing. I can have her on a training line, but it's not like I can prevent her from self rewarding if she ignores me as she is already there sniffing - unless I use it to drag her towards me away from the scent if she ignores the whistle but this seems aversive and not a good idea? So currently, I am trying to practice recalling when she is sniffing in a less frenzied way, but I can't really predict how distracting the scent is, and sometimes she will come and sometimes she will ignore me and carry on sniffing. I don't want to poison my recall, but I do need to work on this. Should I carry on with this strategy just hoping the rate of success will increase? I'm sending her back to the sniff as a reward, as that's higher value than roast chicken for these situations. Is that ok? We had a horrible time yesterday morning where she got a scent of something, I couldn't catch the end of the training line in time, and she ran and ran like a mad thing back and forth across this huge field for 5-10 minutes, and I couldn't get her back. I didn't even try my recall because I knew there was no chance it would work. This happened once before, where she ran across two fields and a road because she smelled a pheasant, and this initiated our walking her on the training line for the last four months. I thought we were making progress, and we now have beautiful focus most of the time on our usual walks, but it seems like animal scent is an invisible and unpredictable distraction that I can't control and therefore have no idea how to work on. I can recall her generally away from rabbit holes, so perhaps it is another animal that sends her wild - but I have no idea really. And it is really stressful knowing at any point, she might catch a whiff of whatever and I would lose all control over her I realise that the normal advice is to reduce the distraction, introduce it more slowly, increase distance, etc. But I don't know how to do that for invisible sniffs
I'm working on proofing my recall - so understand how hard it is! It's a bit different, but mine gets very distracted sniffing dog pee. I started by calling him when he had nearly finished sniffing, I'd call, run away, lots and lots of praise and give jackpot rewards. Then the next step was calling when he was in the middle of sniffing, then while he had caught the scent and was trying to find the pee. He's pretty good now, but I still haven't proofed it for when there have been bitches in season around, which is much harder. So maybe you could wait for a situation when she's distracted by a smell, hold onto the line so she can't run off, and wait until she starts to lose interest, and then call her. That way it's less distracting because she's already starting to stop sniffing by herself. And when you call her, run away and give amazing rewards. Other people might have better ideas, but this sort of process did work for me. Dog pee is different from animal scents though!! Good luck with it!
Don't try and recall a dog when she is sniffing, it just teaches her to ignore you; wait for the moment she stops then call and be very enthusiastic when she returns.
I agree, we did this with Charlie on a long line whilst starting to run in the opposite direction, we also introduced a "this way" cue, of course with lots of great treats or you could train a 'turn' whistle but I don't know how to train that someone else will help you. Totally agree with @Stacia just don't call her when she in deep sniff mode because she will just ignore you and so devalueing your recall.
Ah thank you! I was tying myself into knots trying to work out how to get distance from a sniff, but I had forgotten about just waiting until the sniff is less exciting. One trouble is that for some sniffs, she just strains against the lead getting more worked up, wanting to follow it - but at least sometimes I think I can wait until the distraction level reduces. Thank you
But if I never try recalling her during the sniffing, how will she ever learn to break away from sniffing on the whistle? I guess I have to try at some point, but build up to it as lucky_dog says?
Thank you I think Indie and Charlie are quite similar in some ways although you are a lot further along with Charlie! She knows 'this way' and a turn whistle, but again, these are also not proofed against exciting animal scent so I have the same issues - she would ignore all the commands! The recall is the most important to me and so the one I want to get strongest first - and if that one isn't working, the others definitely won't. It was also really windy yesterday when we had our awful semi-absconding episode occur and I think she was probably smelling a million animals on the wind...I'm hoping this contributed to it and its not a pure reflection of her normal state
One of the things I always remember when training loose lead walking is Turid Rugass' advice in her book 'My Dog Pulls! What Do I Do?' that when a dog is deep into a sniff they are in effect deaf and simply don't hear you calling/whistling so don't bother! Wait and as the sniff lessens call/whistle. An alternative is to train a 'No Sniff' and a 'Go Sniff' cue but you would usually restrict the 'No stiff' to walking on lead and allow free sniffing when off lead - sniffing is mentally very tiring for a dog
Yes - I think the wind makes it even harder! It was really windy here today and I had to go back to square one, just asking for very simple things, because his nose was in the air the whole time. I need a really good recall because I live in a city. Where I walk there are people, dogs, and most annoyingly cyclists! They don't slow down and I've already seen a couple of dogs get hit by bikes in the woods. So, I really do need to be able to recall him from sniffing things if I see a bike coming. If it wasn't for his safety, I'd just wait until he finished and then call him.
When you have fully trained the recall, then she will come away from a sniff. Until fully trained, never try as they will just ignore you, as said above, they really are deaf, sniff in nose means ears cannot hear!
Ahh I think this is where my confusion is...I thought to 'fully train the recall' you had to somehow teach it in the presence of all possible distractions. I had got the impression that if I hadn't taught her specifically to come away from sniffing, she would never learn how to come away from sniffing. So is the idea that if I carry on training the recall when she isn't distracted, at some point it will get strong enough by itself to 'break through' distractions?
Oh gosh cyclists! I'm lucky I don't get them! It sounds like you are doing really well with it - I hope I will get there with Indie Pindie one day
I think they are quite similar, but I am not further along at all. I never trained a 'turn' whistle and Charlie is hardly what I would call a 'velcro' dog But he is better than he was, a lot better and we have accepted his breed and the characterstics that come with that, his limitations and ours before he drove us completely CRAZY!!! x
Yep I don't think pointers and Velcro go in the same sentence! Do you still walk Charlie on the training line? I was thinking about indie's pointer characteristics this evening when she was pointing at a rabbit hole - but she does it with a floppy paw so you can tell she's not all pointer!
No, Charlie came off the long line about 2 years ago. He had been on it for 3 long years and I think we had ALL had enough, it was hard going but there really wasn't a choice, as zero recall was a massive problem when he came to us.
You've done amazingly with him I look forward to one day walking with indie and not constantly jumping over and untangling a long line even more fun and games in the dark! Walks currently are like doing an assault course with a blindfold on, tied to a wolf...
How rabbity is the area where you take him walking? Do you go out very early in the morning or at dusk when rabbit activity is very high? All those things can make training a hundred times harder.
Yes it is quite rabbity, and yes dawn and dusk during the week so I guess it is very challenging. Although sometimes she is perfect and other times struggles in the middle of the day. Part of the problem is frenzied sniffing, but also usually the frenzied sniffing leads to mad running in giant zigzags and at that stage I have no control whatsoever. I thought from reading total recall that I had to start working on recall in these sniffy settings if I was ever going to improve - but is that not correct? We have a good recall in boring fields and can recall away from playing with other dogs etc. So I saw training the recall in more rabbity settings as the next step for us - but that is where we are struggling. Does this mean we need to carry on doing it in boring settings for longer, until we have a 'fully trained recall' as Stacia said? How do we know when we have a 'fully trained recall'?
Lara, did you have any luck with getting use of a paddock to train Indie in less exciting areas? It pretty much saved us having the use of a paddock to train Charlie
We have an almost-enclosed large paddock (a public one though) but it does still have rabbits in and pheasants. I am not sure there any any grassy areas round here that don't and it is open at one end so I can't really relax in it but it's our most boring field and so where we do most of our training. Unfortunately our garden is tiny.
