Oh sorry I was referring to what Helen did with Charlie - she said "As for desensitising, we sat near deer, pheasants, ducks you name it". i was wondering if it had helped. Perhaps desensitising is the wrong word? Thank you the food bowl training sounds good. We can do it with a pile of kibble and a stop whistle indoors, but haven't tried it outside yet. That is something clear and concrete I can work on - I can see how to train control in the face of desirable food, other dogs, people etc. So just to be clear, you are saying, I can use food bowl and other things as distractions to train, and this will potentially help a little with control around hunting? I thought the only way to gain control around animal scent was to train in the presence of animal scent. But you are saying, don't do that, or at least do more work on other distractions and things she wants first, so she gets better general control which will hopefully carry over, or help a little, with the animal scent control? I think the amount she desires her food bowl outside is of course much less than how much she desires a pheasant, but anything that might help a bit I will try. Thanks and sorry I've got in such a tangle. I get pretty frustrated and upset about this, when the rest of her training is going so well.
@Lara, I think you need some professional help to point you in the right direction. You are in a way, banging your head against a brick wall if your dog is half a pointer. I had German Shorthaired Pointers and although they lived to hunt, they were under control. I think you are expecting your dog to be more like a pet dog and with strong hunting genes, that isn't possible. However, you can still have an obedient dog, but you do need to understand its need to work.
It will strengthen your cues. But it starts with something achievable rather than jumping straight into a rabbity field.
Yep I agree and that's why I am trying to get into the gundog stuff more - I don't expect her to be like the nice little shitzu at pet dog obedience class. And the reason I want to gain a bit of control in these settings is not to prevent her from hunting, but to perhaps one day learn controlled hunting because that is what she is bred for. I realised quickly she would not be an easy pet dog. Yep I will try to find another gundog trainer... but maybe I am just too late or incompetent with my training Indie to get anywhere with animal scent hunting and perhaps she and I might be happier if I accept that! Thanks for all your help, I appreciate your time
Lara, sorry to hijack your thread. @heidrun when you stop the dog on the way to the food bowl is there a specific cue for sending them for the food? Thanks x
It's never too late. And no doubt there will be set backs. No dog is perfect and even the best trained gundog can have an off day. Just keep going with small achievable steps.
Helen, I use 'back' to send the dog either from my side or with the dog facing me with its back to the food bowl. Or I use 'out' for a left or a right. Those are the same cues I use for retrieving.
Is it OK to use 'back' for this as I use it to send Charlie to his mat (placeboard) for stop whistle training? Thank you
No, "you are not too late or too incompetent in your training" @Lara, we all have to start somewhere and starting with a more challenging dog means you will learn more than if you had an easy dog, but you do need some help to show you the way. Then there will be no stopping you and you will find such joy in working your dog, will change your life, changed mine
Thanks - sorry was having a bit of a self pitying hopeless moment. Will pull myself together and find a good trainer!
We all have those, many a time I have came home from training in tears with the Pointers! Labs are easier.
@Lara, while walking my Lab this morning I was thinking of you. Two things, 1) I called my Lab the very second he lifted his head from sniffing, so you could try that to begin to proof the recall and scents. 2) Have you trained your dog to the stop whistle? If not, this could be very valuable for you, the moment she starts to go off after the scent, you blow the stop and then when she has stopped and looking at you, blow the recall.
I read a few minutes ago on the positive gundog FB page about some success someone has had with their cocker spaniel who sounds quite similar to Indie in some ways. She has been playing a game where she squats down, facing away from her dog and hides her face in her hands. Apparently, the dog becomes enthused to find the handler's face and, when she does, gets lots of praise and celebration before being released again. Played in low distraction environment to start off with. If you're not a member, it might be worth joining so you can discuss with the person who posted about it? https://www.facebook.com/groups/243522802504931/?ref=nf_target&fref=nf
Thanks Stacia! Yes that is something I can do, call her just at the end of a sniff. It wouldn't work for the sniffs that send her crazy (because that sniff doesn't end), but certainly for the mildly-interesting-for-a-moment sniffs thank you. And yes, she knows stop whistle, but it is perhaps weaker than the recall so if she wasn't going to respond to recall because of scent, she is also very unlikely to respond to stop whistle. But I can try it preemptively, perhaps to stop and redirect her focus just before she is heading to a particularly sniffy area.
I saw that too! And the way the person described their spaniel, it really resonated with me as it sounded exactly like indie. Perhaps she is a secret spaniel who's ironed out her ears...I will definitely try that! I already have a 'what's this???' and crouch squeak when I 'find' some treats in the grass which normally gets her rushing over, but again, not if she has smelled something interesting. But I like the 'finding the face' aspect of this game, it sounds more handler focussed which is good. Thanks! I will report back. Incidentally, she mentioned Susan Garrett Recallers course, does anyone know if this is good and worthwhile? I couldn't find many details online.
I think the key to whatever you do is to start training in a place of very low distraction. I think that is also mentioned in the Facebook post you are talking about. For hunting breeds that means ground with no or very little scent on it. I can't stress this enough. That's how I started my rescue spaniel Amy. I found a place where I was the most interesting, entertaining and rewarding feature on the scene. That's where it started and it ended with a field full of pheasants and rabbits. But there are many, many steps along the way and months and months of daily training. This is a little clip from today. I don't usually go for 'walks' with my dogs and Amy is more than just a little bemused as to why we are not retrieving or hunting and not even a cue to walk to heel. But she remembers her early training of checking in with me and I click and treat every time. One or two rabbits in that hedge at the beginning of the video are no problem for her. I have trained a strong 'gone away' cue which means leave that alone it is of no interest to us. It is a cue I use in all sorts of different situations.
