Hi Doglover12345. Sorry to hear your boy also has this problem. Luckily the blood dripping stopped so we just wait and see. No treatment. I was going to seek holistic treatment but since no more blood, I've not. The scan showed healthy prostate tissue so that put our minds at rest. The vet said this is not an emergency situation, that it's the right thing to wait and see. The vet didn't mention the drug you mention. Thanks for mentioning it - in case we need it! Please post again with any updates.
It is a drug for BPH also used in humans to reduce the size of the prostate. Other options as mentioned by your vet is to neuter or some vets will offer a chemical castration (suprelorin) it is not uncommon for older dogs to have enlarged prostates...bit like humans! Why don't you pop over to introductions and say hello?
Of course I asked Stacia, and no they would not allow it. I will never use them again - in retrospect I think they could have done the whole thing differently.
Hi, thanks for the response. It's so nice to hear of others that "think outside of the box" The traditional vets have been trying to bully me into neutering and when I ask intelligent questions they ignore me. The bloody leakage when sleeping started months ago and I took the wait and see approach as well. It stopped, then started 4 months later. I had another ultrasound done and it shows it's not getting any better. Then I called some breeders (my boy is my pet but thought they may know how to deal with it) and one told me that they took the wait and see approach as well and ended up with a very sick dog, he had an acute prostate infection from not treating it and it causing an infection. He needed antibiotics for weeks. Another said that their dog couldn't have a bowel movement and they took him to emergency and ended up losing him. Now all oxf a sudden mine has been getting constipated the past few days. I have heard mixed results on the holistic treatments. I gave the finasteride for the first time today. I don't like prescription medications and prefer holistic but this is known to work in most cases and almost as fast as neutering. After it shrinks, I can take him off of it in about 8 weeks and then try the holistic treatments to keep it from enlarging again. I also ended up buying the PEMF device that they used in the study in Italy, and was going to use it but got concerned as it doesn't seem to have enough studies to prove it safe, otherwise wouldn't all men be using them on their prostates by now? I spoke to several veterinarians who said the Finasteride has worked great for their dogs.
Hi @Doglover12345 Did you see my post (#2) in this thread? My boy was treated using TCM and now, just over a year later, is still fine. OUr Vet is a Holistic/Integrative Vet. Oban's initital condition resolved quite quickly, faster than 8 weeks. Also, he is the first intact male with an enlarged prostate my Vet had in her practice. All her other dogs with this problem were neutered, giving me little faith in neuter as the only option. ETA: oops, think I misread the 8 weeks part. But while I'm back here, some funnies for you. My dog is on the same TCM for his prostate as my VEt's human father is on for his prostate. And my friend's dog was on the same western med. as her husband is. My friend's dog was PTS recently due to unrelated issues.
Hi Snowshoe, that's awesome that TCM is working so well for you I look forward to trying it as well. That's funny about your dog, is it the saw palmetto? Which western med was your friend's dog on, the Finasteride? Was the dog on it long term? What happened that he/she had to be put to sleep? As I understand the Finasteride isn't normally used long term as there hasn't been any long term studies?
@Doglover12345 Snowie actually had tests to rule out an infection. The first was a quick urine test in my vet's lab. The second was a urine culture test that took a week or two - she had to send it away to a lab. Both showed no UTI. He also had a biopsy of his prostate which showed no cancerous cells. My vet hadn't heard of the saw palmetto, but she does not use alternative modalities. However, she was very open to holistic vet care because she'd previously worked in a large animal hospital that has a holistic vet and she said he's done amazing work, that before working with him, she'd been skeptical. Great idea to call the breeder - they tend to be the only people who have unneutered dogs and want to keep them intact!
@MF You were very thorough, lucky Snowie. I had the urine tests done as well, so thought I was safe against it too. Then I found out afterwards when the blood came back that I had to re-test the urine again, as the Veterinarian then explained that because of it being enlarged, the prostate is chronically inflamed, even though there may be no visible symptoms sometimes. So that chronic inflammation wears on the prostate and can turn into infections. Some dogs get several of them. The chronic ones may show no symptoms, but the acute one will send dogs to the hospital very sick and in pain. That's awesome that your vet is open to holistic. Hope Snowie continues to do well, I'm a bit worried right now with the constipation and hoping his prostate shrinks soon with the medication.
@Doglover12345 the ultrasound scan Snowie had was also to rule out pockets of infection. The vet assured me there were no pockets of infection. I hope your boy recovers quickly. It is heart-breaking wondering if they're in pain but being stoical. Is there anything you can give to help the constipation? Some pectin-rich food that absorbs water and helps movement through the gut. Perhaps some raw apples? Does your vet recommend anything? Maybe some water flavored with chicken soup or fish flakes - water is always good to get the bowels moving.
I find it sad that because the human doesn't like to remove 'body parts' the dog has to be uncomfortable. It would be so much simpler to castrate and have the problem resolved.
@Stacia the way I see it, testicles are hormone producing and I believe Snowie (and any male dogs) still needs his (theirs). If his life became worse because of them, I'd consider otherwise. But if there was treatment that could help to reverse the problem without castration, then why not pursue it?
Because I believe castration is the best treatment. You could look at male hormones another way, an entire dog must, at some point, have sexual desires which he is not allowed to use, thus he is frustrated.
@Doglover12345 my boy is not on Saw Palmetto ( my husband takes it sometimes though) but on several concoctions of different TCM which address a combination of issues. There may be some SP in the mix. Forget what my friend's dog was on, will ask next time I see her. The dog had seizures thought to be, now, due to a brain tumour. He was on phenobarbitol but the dose had to keep going higher and he began to have more, and more violent, seizures and he had health complications from the med and he developed quite bad dementia. Whether the dementia is related to the meds I don't know. He was only 10, or just barely 11. He was intact too, by the way. A stud dog for his breed.
@Stacia I have heard that opinion before that entire dogs must have sexual desires which causes frustration, I have given much thought and research into this. In some countries, like Norway, neutering dogs is illegal. At least half of Europe doesn't neuter their dogs. I have had a hard time finding reputable literature to back up the statement about the sexual frustration. Do you have something you can point me to? Also, castration may be the best treatment for BPH. But from my research I found that older intact males that were neutered due to BPH can end up still having enlarged prostates and infections. So I would hate to neuter him, and get rid of testestosterone, which is found in dogs to have protective effects against disease, then end up still dealing with the same problem. The studies state that Finasteride should clear the constipation within 7 days. I'm on day 2. If it doesn't clear up by day 7 he's going into be neutered.
@MF Thanks, I've given some pumpkin and yogurt and that's helped a lot but if it doesn't totally clear within a few days he's going into be neutered. If you choose not to treat it now until it gets worse, do you plan on re-ultrasounding every 3-4 months and doing another urinalysis to make sure an infection hasn't started? If I had the choice again I would've started the TCM and not took the watch and wait approach as one un-knowledgeable vet told me as I've now found out that it only gets worse in time so just trying to spare someone else the unneeded stress.
@Doglover12345 re the wait and see, it was to see if blood starting dripping again. Thankfully it hasn't. If blood started dripping my vet wanted to see Snowie again. She said his prostate size (enlarged) was normal for his age as an intact dog. But you give me reason to pursue more vet care. I have read another vet in her blog saying she treats an enlarged prostate even if no clinical signs of disease, as a preventative measure. Was your wait and watch approach while your dog was dripping blood?
I do not have any studies to back up about dogs sexual frustration, only my personal experience and that of others. Most male dogs will not be sexually frustrated all the time, but a bitch in season nearby will affect them quite seriously. I have had three male dogs castrated and since castration they have ceased marking and seem more calm overall. I think we have to be careful at which studies we read as many are biased on what they believe and can find the figures to support them, just have to fudge numbers a bit. I also think it depends on the readers bias as well, we all like to find things that agree with our thoughts, even if this is only subliminally, I am sure I am guilty of this also. Treating the dog in other ways is still messing with their hormones.
@Doglover12345 please ask your Vet about the constipation. If the prostate is quite enlarged it can block and compress both the urinary and stool outlets (proper terminology escapes me at the moment) and giving him pumpkin or whatever may not help. Lots of water to drink is more likely to help. As per my VEt when she was telling me to watch out for both reduced peeing and pooping. A tiny bit of flavouring in water might encourage more drinking and help to dilute the urine at least, if not help expel it. My VEt said it was more serious operation to neuter an older dog than a young one. Oban was 8 last year when he was facing neuter. Vet said the testicles have been hanging there for a longer time and the sac doesn't shrink up as it does in younger dogs and sometimes must be removed if it hangs too low (it won't retract naturally in cold or activity anymore as it does when it's full of testicle) and the risk of injury is present. Plus she said sometimes the removal area takes longer to heal up than a neuter usually does in a young one, even if the scrotal sac is removed when young. I didn't check this out, just what my VEt said. UNtil recently there was a kennel breeding GR 2 km up wind of us. I'm sure Eau de Bitch in Heat wafted over toward our house quite often but I never saw any response in Oban. I find when you are looking for studies to read deliberately searching for information on the opposite of what you hope to find can help. Look for the supporting and detracting opinions, look for the good and the harm. Look for the author's credentials (bloggers, I hate bloggers, most of them) look for links to source material, look at the date.
Here is one of my favourite concise studies on the pros/cons of spaying and neutering. It is on a Rottie breeder site but is a 2007 summary with citations from Rutgers University: http://www.silverhillrottweilers.com/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf Also a ton of reading here via the Old Grey Muzzle Tour, a program to study the longest lived Rottweilers to make breakthroughs in both canine and human longevity. A lot here but very interesting: http://gpmcf.org/articles.html
