Thank you everyone for the encouraging noises! So today we tried a little baseline test to see where we are starting from. I walked Pongo all round the garden, up and down the slopes and back and forth across the lawn, for about 10 minutes. He was good loose-lead all the way, although mainly because I was giving him regular treats (about once every 20 steps or so). Then later on we went up the farm track a little way. He was OK for about 50 yards then would start to drift forwards (not "pulling" really, just getting ahead of me). I stopped, waited til he turned round, then did an about turn and treated him. We did this quite a few times before calling it a day. So, I think my first training aims should be: continue to do 10 minute stretches of loose-lead in the garden, with lots of treats so he gets used to the lead being a good thing; PLUS gradually try to extend the length of his concentration / loose-lead going down the farm track. One question - if he stops for a sniff should I stop too and let him finish? Or insist that he comes along after me? (Maybe I should start a separate thread in the training logs area for "Pongo's Remedial Class"!)
Its very depressing but I`ll keep trying maybe better treats tomorrow! Thanks for support makes me feel a little better.
This one is critical if you have a strong, intact dog that like to sniff - I have one! It doesn't so matter whether you stop or let him sniff as that you are consistent in what you want. So....what do you want? If you want your dog to stop and sniff whenever he wants, then let him do that but perhaps train a 'let's go!' cue when you want him to move on. If you only want him to stop and sniff when you say 'go sniff' then train that. If you never want him to stop and sniff, then have him on a short lead and treat him putting his head down the same as pulling. Stop until he gives up. The only thing is...I think it is actually harder for a dog with his nose in a sniff to walk 'nicely'. As in a dog that is sniffing along constantly, deep in a sniff, is not really concentrated on walking or you. I allow my dogs to sniff along mainly, because I do a LOT of lead walking and I think it's boring for them otherwise. But this has been MUCH harder to train than walking on a short lead (so they can't sniff) but I think it has been worth it. My dogs can now sniff along on a loose lead, or walk close and not sniff on cue. This isn't all that easy to train, and at one point I would switch leads and collars to teach them the difference, and it's easier to train one or the other. The other thing is...how powerful is your reinforcer? Is food really cutting it? Because food never did it for Charlie. Tug did it for Charlie.....
@JulieT if I use the instruction for Harls to sniff and do I click for that too? When she goes to sniff? And does the chance to sniff become her reward or do I bring in another reward? She doesn't want a treat if she wants to sniff. But it would add another chance to add something to our training on our on lead walks.
I would say the sniff is a reward in itself. I don't allow any sniffing at all on lead, that way it's easy for me and the pup. On lead = no sniffing. Off lead = sniff sniff sniff .
It completely depends on the dog. With my two, I do not mark and use a sniff as a reinforcer because what I found was the dog started lunging for distractions on a click or a 'good'! This was the case with both sniffing and clicking to release to food bowls (used as a distraction for proofing loose lead). I do not want my dogs to help themselves to distractions in the environment on a click or marker word. To train 'go sniff' find yourself a quiet road with an interesting side - a verge etc. Shorten your lead, and walk down the middle of the road and don't let the dog sniff. When the dog is walking nicely, stop, lengthen your lead say go sniff and head quickly to the interesting bit and let the dog sniff. At this point, I click for stopping sniffing. When the dog stops sniffing, I click and feed, say 'let's go', shorten my lead and head back to the middle of the road where there isn't much to sniff. And so on. With Charlie, I switched from a limited slip lead to a flat collar to make the difference even more marked for him. I'm not sure that helped all that much, but it did seem to help a bit. With two dogs, I find left/right works well as a 'now you can sniff/now you can't' cue. The dog on my right has to walk without sniffing. The dog on my left can sniff. Yep, I too wish I had that the other way round! I might switch it over before it gets even more ingrained...that was trained simply by having the dog on my right on a shorter lead by the less interesting kerb, and the dog on my left on a longer lead by the interesting gate posts when walking down a street.
The sniff is definitely the reward, if she wants to sniff. For Shadow, it's a huge reinforcer. For Willow, she's not really interested in sniffing and, if I release her when she's on a lead, she tends to just stand around, looking at me and waiting for a treat. So, you have to go with what you see in front of you. @Rosie my dogs are very rarely on lead, like Pongo. I use two different leads to mean different things. A short handle means, "no sniffing, no peeing, let's go!" and I find this far easier to control the dogs with than a longer lead. They just don't have the opportunity to build up any momentum if they do try and pull. This is what I use if we're walking to somewhere I will be letting them off the lead or, for example, to go to the vet. Then I have their Halti double-ended leads which I use mainly in Spain, when there's hunting going on. They still can walk to heel with these, but they know that, at some point, they will be released to sniff or meander about. When in "sniff" mode, I have no qualms about them crossing sides in front or behind me like some people do. They are used for walks where the dogs have to stay on lead, but it's "walkies" time, not just getting from A to B.
Oh, and I don't think there's any value in clicking Harley when she sniffs. You're not trying to make her sniff, which that would imply. Remember, clicking is about marking a precise behaviour that you are trying to train. With Shadow (Sniffy McSniffFace), I'd mark him for walking nicely (not with a clicker, I don't think that's appropriate after the very early stages - I use a "good boooy" as a signal to him he's doing something right and to keep doing it) and then say "Go sniff" to release him to sniff. I never had to train him what those words meant - the tone of my voice made it obvious he was being released, and doing it by a post or bush would pretty much guarantee there was something good to smell. I like Julie's idea for clicking the stopping sniffing.
I feel for you @Rosie, Benson is a challenge walking on the loose lead, and like you I do hardly any of it, I do try to mix it up on walks though, and this helps a lot. On these walks I allow Benson to sniff..as I feel it's part of the walk and I don't want him to associate the lead with feeling restricted. I use my clicker when the lead goes on, and give a treat, then I may play a game, to gain focus back on me , before we walk loose lead. I allow Benson to sniff, and when he turns and comes back to a heel position he gets a treat. On a loose lead Benson gets a treat for walking nicely in position, depending on how exciting the environment, this can range from luring...tasty treat in the nose, to a bit of kibble every say 20 paces or so. If I am not luring, then the treat is always given just behind my hip. I only lure just to get him past a highly arousing situation, and my goat is to avoiding him pulling, or me standing still. A lot of my loose lead training I started by walking off lead, mainly to cue Benson to walking in position beside me. I found it easier to work with this rather than having the lead in the way. I could bake some extra special treats and come over for a practise one day if you like?
Definitely recommend you switch while it's easier - if you're walking down a (UK) country lane with no pavements, you're going to be on the right hand side of the road, facing the traffic, with nothing for the dog on the left to sniff, and the poor dog on the right, with all those luscious scents unable to sample them. I used to be a strict "dog on my left" walker - I flapped and floundered if I attempted to swap to "dog on my right". I walk lots of pavementless lanes. Happily for Coco, I now have conquered my uncoordination, and he gets to sniff on the right.
Oh Harley LOVES sniffing, she really zones out when she sniffs. Thank you for the info, I will start implementing it on our next walk.
Thank you, that is a really helpful comment (and a useful question). I'm generally happy for Pongo to sniff while we are lead walking - it is running away with me that I want to stop!
We let Holly sniff, but we decide when she moves on. Most of the time this is not a problem, but occasionally she will resist and carry on sniffing. In retrospect we have not been very consistent on this so maybe we need to work on it a bit more.
Good point. To be honest with Pongo I don't think ANYTHING is more powerful than his desire to sniff. Even warm roast chicken has its limitations...he is a walking nose.
Well, if sniffing is what does it for him, try to use that. You have to be a bit careful with it though. I once got Charlie out of the car at Gundog Training, got him walking nicely, said 'go sniff' and he lunged so hard to get to a sniff on the other side of the clearing he face planted me in the mud...but yeah, sniffing is a big reward for Charlie.... I only don't use it because tug is as good and a bit more practical.
Really helpful, thank you! Yes, I'm keen he doesn't see the lead as a restriction (more as an opportunity to get treats). I think I will start taking the lead with me on our normal walks and building it in - even if to begin with it is only for a few paces...
That would be great! (Although I'm not sure Pongo is quite ready for the "proof-against-bensondistraction" yet....)
