Go Pongo ! I admire your tenacity Rosie ! Sam is also a big lad at 40 kilos, it wasn't easy , but we got there in the end , with patience and wine !
Thank you all for being supportive! Today I was a bit rubbish because working in the morning and out all afternoon at rehearsal - just back but need to head out to concert in an hour! BUT we did do a little bit of training on his normal walk, using the best treats I have in the house (fishcuits). We just did a short distance of VERY high level of treating (every four steps, pretty much as fast as I could get my hand to the bag and back to his mouth). Pongo looked a bit bemused but very happy about that (and of course trotted along lovely at heel). It was while going through quite an "interesting" bit of his normal walk, so that was good behaviour even if it was only for less than a minute. Then I ran out of treats..... so I took the lead off. One good side-effect is that he is now looking happy when he sees the lead. So I suppose that means he is definitely making the connection that "the lead means an opportunity for me to earn treats". Don't miss the next thrilling instalment of "Here Goes Nuffin" tomorrow!
It's beyond tedious! Training off lead heel is much more fun, you can train it with games, and reward with balls, and toys, and retrieves. I find it much more interesting. And the good thing is, once you have a great off lead heel, then you can just slip a lead on. (Just a plug there for training off lead heel first ).
Roast chicken. Last night's leftovers mean supply of supertreats for Pongers. So here we go. Just one session today....one of his normal walk routes, and at three points I took out the lead, put him on it, and did a stretch of rapid-fire chicken in exchange for nice walking. First stretch (on interesting farm track a bit iffy to begin with but got the idea after a bit. It looked to me as though he was really trying to concentrate on the chicken - he was very alert and almost "stressed" looking (not in a bad way) as he went along. I stopped before he failed, took the lead off and he ran away happily. Second stretch I called him and showed him the lead (and chicken) and he trotted back happily to have it put on. Off we went and he was pretty good - again quite rapid-fire treats although a little less frequent, and again I stopped before he failed, let him off lead and off he went. Final stretch was back through our garden - very boring, and he was perfect with not-very-frequent treats. We did use up rather a lot of roast chicken. Don't tell OH. Rosie
Sounds like great progress. Just one question/tip: does he bolt off as soon as you remove the lead? I prefer to have my dogs stay with me until I release them to "go play". This is easy to achieve; at first, hold a bit of chicken under his nose as you unclip the lead and give it to him once you've stood back up. Work on fading the lure, but still give him one piece, or sometimes two or three (so he doesn't automatically run off after one), so he learns that hanging around is valuable. Over time, you can introduce asking for a behaviour, or going straight into an exciting game when you let the lead off. Tom and Lauren from Absolute Dogs cover this in their "Leash Off Game On" DVD, but it's something I've always done, because I never liked how dogs bolt away from their owners as soon as they're unclipped!
Actually, no; usually the opposite, he hangs around hopefully looking for another bit of chicken, and I have to encourage him with a "go play!" before he'll head off. Unless, of course, there is an interesting dog or human within a five mile radius. Then he's off. But then if there was a dog or human in a five mile radius he wouldn't be walking on a loose lead anyway...
Don't throw that away! Don't repeat your 'go play' cue. Just ignore him for 10 seconds and if he still sticks around say 'want to work? READY' give your heel cue, if he stays one step at heel, drop a treat and keep walking....with a bit of luck he'll rush to catch up with you coming into a heel position, take two steps, drop a treat keep walking.....if he chooses to keep working, that's fine. Try to say 'go play' again before he wanders off though.
It's a point I've wondered about. When we are out walking, sometimes he will choose to come up to me and walk at heel, looking hopeful, without being asked. Do I treat or not? I can see why I should. But is there a problem that it is Pongo who is choosing when to play the "heel" game (and therefore when not to)? Do I need to be training "come and walk at heel when I need you to", or do I need to train "any time you walk at my heel I will treat you"? Oh dear. Over-thinking again, I suspect. Sorry...
Offering a behaviour that he thinks might earn him a reward is awesome, so definitely to be encouraged in my book. What I tend to do is reward the offered behaviour (if it's done at an appropriate time - I wouldn't reward something that was inappropriate, like offering a down when I'm after something else...), then break it and ask for it again. The easiest way is to toss the treat away from your body, so pup has to go and find it, then you give your "heel" cue to have them reorient to you. Dropping the treat is a bit of a "break the focus, get the focus" game. It teaches the dog to be constantly checking back with you after he's done the thing in hand (eating the treat). You get more repetitions of him having to consciously move back into the heel position from being out of it. It also makes it more fun and highr energy than just postboxing treats into his gob (although there's nothing wrong with that when it wouldn't be suitable for dropping treats - on a short lead, for example).
You are not over thinking! You are just thinking. Thinking is what makes dog training a success. For now, reinforce any heel you get if offered - but don't just always pay the same thing. If he will offer 2 steps at heel because he is just hanging around waiting for treats, pay that at first but then wait for 3, then 4, then 5..... so sure, he can offer a heel for treats but make what he has to offer more and more, don't just give him treats for one step at heel. The key really is that he breaks the heel only after a cue. So always say 'off you go' or 'go play' before he'd wander off on his own. I was talking about an off lead heel. A fun way to teach an off lead heel is to drop the treat. Then the dog has to run to catch up with you for another treat - only next time they have to stay with you 2 (then 3, 4, 5...20) steps before you drop the treat. So you break up the walking with little bits of running for the dog. It just makes it more engaging and higher energy for the dog.
Sounds like you are doing really well Rosie . I'm really enjoying reading this thread and the progress you have already made x
Oops - I was practicing off lead heel this morning. It's a game we play. Heel, sit (or down) - I walk on, heel - repeat. I called out "heel" and Coco didn't appear by my side, I turned and he'd gone off into the trees - why? He is quite good at this and I'd had no inkling I'd suddenly become boring, but I knew we were in the vicinity where we'd seen a rabbit 45 minutes earlier. Ah - he needed a urgent poo, and likes to poo well off the path. When finished, he returned to heel - good boy Coco! Definitely make "taking the lead off" a cue for an exciting game. Maybe, in time, Pongo won't bolt off to another dog/human, because it's better to stay & play - I'm hoping this works for us.
There has been a bit of a break in Pongo's log. Monday and Tuesday I was away at work, so not my fault....but we missed Wednesday too because I just never got round to it (and then it rained). BAD labradormum. I did say that my biggest problem would be stick-to-it-ness. But yesterday and today we did do our bit. I'm still just taking his lead when we do our normal loop, and popping it on him for some stretches while firing treats at him. I'm pleased that he gets all happy when he sees the lead come out - that is something I really did want to achieve. I am not "stretching" him yet....it is all very very easy, just trotting along next to me focused on the bag of treats in my hand. I'm not rapid-firing quite so rapidly, but still giving a high level of treats. I know I need to start stretching it out, but I really want to take it slowly and get it right this time so am probably taking it too slow. I am finding that I'm talking to him all the time, saying "good lad, good Labrador, what a good boy, good boy...". I'm doing it without thinking, really, and it seems to help him focus on me. I'm assuming that isn't a problem, although I know I'll need to phase it out too. We're on holiday for a week or so from next Monday, so he is going to have a long break while he is in his kennels. It will be interesting to see how much has "stuck" when we get back...
Sounding good Rosie ! I also say Good Lad, for no good reason , other than the fact that I love him , and love to see a happy response !
Aw well done Rosie and Pongo. I too am always talking to Hattie & Charlie, good girl/boy, well done, yes, fantastic, I am pretty sure anyone who hears me on a walk thinks I am truly bonkers I don't think you need to phase the chatting out at all. Hattie's 9 years and Charlie 6 years and I wouldn't dream of it Have a lovely holiday xx
I constantly chatter to Coco, telling him what a good boy he is, good heel, good look, good sit, good leave. I firmly believe it helps. I can't see me fading it out as it's habit now.
