WE have similar rules for a trail we walk, the dog can be off leash but must be under voice control. The woman we meet (sometimes her son) fails to realize that bushes, trees, dense undergrowth and bends in the trail prevent us seeing her ahead of time. Her dog is a rescue, she has done desensitizing classes with him, to little avail it seems. The poor thing freaks out when he sees another dog. I suppose it's worse for poor Buddy as he's leashed and thus trapped and unable to Flee while the other dogs are off leash. She doesn't freak out herself, not like your lady @SilverFalcon , but why in the world would she walk her poor little dog (and most dogs she will meet on the trail will be bigger than a Cocker Spaniel) where she knowingly puts him into that position? Not kind of her, not at all, does she love her dog or not? Not kind to us either, since we are allowed off leash why doesn't she take her leashed dog elsewhere? It's more like the U.S, here. Most places dogs must be leashed. We have dog parks where dogs can be off leash. The Trans Canada Trail that I meet her on is off leash allowed but it's not a dog park. If we get complaints the rule on the leash might be required. People still take precedence over dogs on this trail. I think all you can do is the same as me. Try to look out for her and call Beau to you. She sounds much worse than the lady I meet.
What we have here is a people problem Or person problem. A PP. The leash rule needs to be somewhat objective, because if this person finds Beau terrifying but I find Beau fantastic and good for my mind and soul...who wins? So I agree with you, it must be that if a dog is displaying aggressive behaviour that leads a person to reasonably believe that they will be harmed. However, it does not seem like reason and this woman have been good friends, or even acquintances for a long time. I wish we could make it that she needs to be walked by someone because she is hysterical and nasty. We can even put up a sign.
I don't mean that they are not Off Lead but that they not restricted to off lead dogs. I seem to meet a lot of people to think that all areas involving woodland, countryside etc are for off lead dogs only, when there are often reasons (not always obvious) why a dog is on lead. But I'm going off at a tangent as I said earlier
@SilverFalcon , sorry to read about your experience today. The whole thing is just so tricky I find because of how people interpret a dog's body language, what one person sees as an enthusiastic happy youngster is a frightening monster to others. It's a shame though, that one dog owner to another can't be more understanding, after all we can all slip up. (Not that I think you did)
Okay, I have nothing against dogs off-lead as long as their owners have control over them 100% of the time. You have to think that there are aggressive dogs, sick dogs, injured dogs, old dogs. They have the right to go for a walk, and demand that your dog doesn't approach them/jump on them. Think about it next time.
I don't think any dog is always 100% reliable. And if dogs are allowed off lead, and aren't being a nuisance or aggressive then it's fine. I think the other dog owner completely over-reacted in this situation. I have problems with my dog on lead, because he gets over-excited by other dogs, but if an off leash dog comes up to us, and the owner is at least trying to recall them or come and get them then I try to be understanding. This probably happens to us every day. For example today, someone was cycling with their dog on lead, so I called my dog to hold his harness, but the cyclist came straight up to us with their dog pulling at the end of the lead. Lucky growled because there was a dog right in his face, lunging at the end of a lead, that had run directly towards him, attached to a cyclist, and I was holding onto his harness so he was restrained. I think the other owner just didn't think that this wasn't a good situation for two dogs to meet. But, it's not the end of the world! My dog is fine, their dog is fine, whatever.
I agree no animal is a 100% reliable. You're on a hiding to nothing if you believe that, the foolish assumption will bite you on the b*m. You can plan and train for a lot of things but there's always something. They are only dogs and we are only human.
You either control your dog, or you don't. If your dog doesn't have a reliable recall, if your dog runs too far ahead of you, if your dog turns corners and you can't see him, I am really sorry, but you don't control your dog. As I said, you should be respectful of other people with their dogs on leash, who have the right to walk in public places, but don't want to be approached by other dogs for various reasons.
That's fine in an ideal world but unfortunately it doesn't always work like that. I hope one of those situations doesnt happen to you and if it does I hope no one judges you as harshly as you judge others
I reckon that even the very best of dogs has an off day from time to time , they are not perfect or robots and we are human , we err . Surely , we can all look back with horror at something our dogs did , something that shouldn't have happened and cringe at the thought of it but it doesn't mean that they are not controlled, just that they ( and us ) slipped up ! The dog that was in danger of causing damage to Nell this morning , now that was poorly controlled because the owner didn't care , I think most of us here , do x
I think it's important to remember in this situation Beau came back when he was called and it was the woman screaming like a banshee that caused most of the problems. I'm sure we will all have times when our dogs are a little bit naughty but I think in this situation it was mainly the other woman's fault for being over the top and ridiculous.
As an aside, since this has happened I've been keeping my dog close to me anytime I can't see a comfortable distance up the path. He now has a close-control short lead handle that I keep on his harness in case I do need to suddenly grab him, and while I did worry that it might snag on something, so far it's been great. As far as recall, we've been working on it since he was 8 weeks old and as he did recall away from a screaming lady and her dog, I think he did really well. While I do agree that having a dog bounding round a corner sight unseen can lead to trouble, I can't agree that only 100% reliable dogs should be allowed off lead. As has been pointed out, no dog is 100% reliable, and by this logic, no dog should ever be allowed off lead. In some places that is the case, and I do feel sorry for the dogs who never have the freedom to have a nice romp.
I think it is worth reflecting on the term "over-reacted" for a moment, and try to understand what the other dog owner may be feeling, or trying to deal with at the time, bear with me while I try and explain . Actually, using one of my dogs as an example might help with this. Casper is 8 years old, has HD, and problems with his back. If we go on a quiet walk, he is always on his lead. He is a bit reactive too, just to complicate things! Now, if another bouncy dog came running up, whilst I wouldn't over react, I would be concerned about Casper. But that's me. Now, suppose we had recently had a very bad encounter? Add an operation...hmmm...my stress levels would be higher. The thing is, we just don't really know much about the other dog owners we encounter. Yes, this is important, and I am so grateful when I see other people making an effort to give us a bit of space, or I can see they are recalling their dogs from Casper. Also, I do understand when people don't quite get it right, as long as every effort is made to maintain control, or very quickly to be able to manage the situation, there again, I do consider myself to relatively reasonable. I agree absolutely with always having sight of your dog, and a really good idea is to have a "close" cue on board, so we are not curtailing off lead activities but using a "hey, just hang out here for a bit please" It is interesting though, on a busy walk today, we took all three dogs, including Casper on a lead. I have not seen so many poorly trained dogs (and screaming children...) coupled with insensitive owners (and parents.) for a long time! Honestly my normally long fuse by the end of the walk..had been reduced to millimetres...I was practically growling myself, let alone my poor dogs....jeez..[/QUOTE]
I don't anyone that has 100% control of their dogs, trainers included so I think it's pretty unreasonable for anyone to say that we all should have this level of control and frankly I don't believe it. As a reasonable, thoughtful human being I always put my dogs on lead when I see other dogs approaching which not everyone does in return as Charlie is a little dog reactive. On ocassions when we have asked that the owner please put their dog on lead they refuse too, in some cases. I do find this rude and irritating. I admit and have done for years that Charlie is a ranger and we don't always have him in sight but that's the only way he can have off lead exercise to burn off his energy which is what we want for him, he is meters from us checking in which I am betting most dog owners do. However we do only allow this in places we are unlikely to meet other dogs so I don't have a problem at all. We are all humans, our dogs are dogs not robots. I believe we put FAR too much pressue on ourselves to always get it right and maybe cause some of the friction between dogs and owners. I wonder if we lightened up a bit what would happen. I love screaming children as I have had 4 myself, children must be allowed to be children too xx
I do understand - I have a reactive dog - although he's reactive because he's friendly, it is still incredibly frustrating when other owners don't bother to try and recall their dogs or come and get them. We are human and over-react sometimes, but I do think shouting hysterically at someone is an over-reaction. As you say, maybe the person had a bad encounter recently, or was just having a really hard week and had a short fuse that day.
While I still don't agree that there are no 100% reliable dogs, there are things you can do even if your dog is not 100% reliable. You never leave him off-sight, you don't allow him to run too far (a dog's recall is usually more reliable when he is closer to you), you carry something to distract his attention (i.e. a toy), you try to spot other dogs before he does.
I'm starting to like the typical US rules better. When we walk places with a number of other dogs, or people dogs must be leashed unless it is specifically an off leash area. If we have really good control we may ignore the rule, but since it is against the law we would not do it unless the dog was very well behaved. In the smaller off leash parks most people expect the dogs to interact, and generally people do not bring aggressive or really badly behaved dogs there, but some of them wouldn't pass muster in the UK. When we are hiking on the beach or in most State and National Forrest's, people who trust their dogs will let them off lead, and let them range quite a ways.
What if you don't have a dog that plays with toys, balls on walks like Charlie? I always am very vigilant spotting other dogs and always put him and Hattie on lead. Also Charlie is Labrador x Pointer so ranges more than a Labrador although much closer now than when we rescued him. Not ideal I know but that's the best we are going to get with him. Does your dog never go out of sight @Berna? Maybe there are dogs that are 100% reliable but I sure haven't met them
@SilverFalcon sorry you had a stressful time out. @charlie you should meet Vanilla for 100% reliability I really don’t know what the problem is about 100% reliability here…….Vanilla is 100% reliable......to get up to mischief.... But on a more serious note, I agree each owner needs to control their dog and respect others, but there is absolutely no need to overreact especially if you are a dog owner yourself. Plus read the situation, if you know anything about dogs. Classic example is the beach here. During Daylight saving dogs have to be on leash between 10am-8pm. All Other times can be off leash, but under effective control. Now you determine what effective control is. When we got Vanilla, being the winter I would spend a lot of time by the beach with her. Starting with on leash first couple of times as I wanted to see what she was like, then a training lead with now fully off leash. During those early days we had some run-ins in various ways with other dog owners. Worst one being the kick. This being my first dog had to learn etiquette quickly, it taught me to make sure I picked where I went and who I avoided etc. Now when we see certain situations I will walk a different way or put her on leash. It is annoying when you see dogs on leash in an off leash area, but we deal with it. I personally just would not take Vanilla there or take her when it is quieter. We just make adjustments accordingly. The biggest issue we have on the beach (for that matter any area where dogs are aloud off leash) is most have their dogs off leash but the interaction with them is minimal if non-existent for a large chunk of them. That is when dogs just do what they want and cause more problems. There has been times where I have had to rescue/intervene to protect Vanilla, with the owner oblivious or nowhere to be seen. This is why we don’t go to ‘Dog Parks’, heard too many bad stories. We can’t train against every scenario, we might try or think we have. But let’s be honest even us humans can’t predict our future, even if we did not have dogs. We have had a dog follow us for a good 10minutes once, including back to the car and jumped into the boot. Did I predict that, no, was the dog friendly towards Vanilla during this time, no but it kept its distance and we managed to train against this. Where was the owner, other side of the oval playing with his son. Did he take any notice, not in the slightest, until I shouted ‘Do you want to get your dog, and by the way you also need to pick up after it’. Even though I did not like the guy or the dog, I still made sure that the dog was safely back behind the fence on the oval. We now try and avoid him, and Vanilla has now learned after a couple of further encounters that this dog is not very friendly and the owner does not care. I know this was long story, and maybe a bit of topic. But anybody who says they have 100% control of their dog at all times, I would find that hard to believe, same with people who say they have 100% control of their Children or spouse.
