We are Hesitant to buy our puppy now we have met the "Male Sir" ??

Hi Everyone, I would LOVE some advise, For the past 8 weeks i have been spending time with my future black lab puppy and the bitch "Lexi" and the rest of her litter, i have been going over once a week since they were 3 weeks old, Lexi the mother is 3 years old and is BEAUTIFUL in nature, appearance, she seems very kind and relaxed. We requested to met the Male Sir which has left us very confused and concerned. The male sir was absolutely crazy, he was very LARGE, jumping and running and running in circles no control could have bowled me over and ripping apart everything in site, Henry is 2 years old. please note: There is no way to say this respectfully the house where "Henry ( the sir ) was not ideal to say the least, not much love happening there..
My question is, would you be put off buying a puppy that has been sired from this dog that appears a bit crazy, or is "Henry" behaviour most likely to be "environmental"?
The puppies has been loved and cared for at a warm home with his mother 'Lexi' and 10 sibling for the last 8 weeks, They do not come with pure breed papers, however they will come with all vet microshipped, wormed and vax. I would love some advise.. Thank-you very much.

 

I wouldn't worry about it too much. To be honest Henry sounds like a lot of 2 year old Labs on this site, including mine when he was that age

Some others might be able to give you a more expert opinion on how temperament is passed along genetically but it seems to me that it can be a bit of a crap shoot, just like most genetics are. Every dog has his own personality and even having two mellow parents does not guarantee a mellow pup.

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

Axel's dad was huge and crazy also, where as mom was very sweet and calm. Granted I only met them the once... so who knows really. I had already fallen in love with Axel and there was no turning back from that.

Axel is huge like his father, weighed in today at 42.2kg at a year and a half. His father is over 45kg. But Axel is very calm and sweet like his mom. He sure does test me sometimes though.

Sounds like you saw the dad who was very excited to stretch his legs and have some fun. So I personally wouldn't worry about it. But others with very good experience will hopefully be around soon

 

Hi there! Personally, I would be more bothered by what you mention as a bad home situation for poor Henry. But really this is a separate issue from whether or not you should get a puppy from this breeder.

I'm also searching for a puppy at the moment and if you take away Henry's living situation and the not-papered factors, Henry's behaviour alone would not concern me. That's a 2 year old dog let loose with a bit of freedom...they can be very exuberant at that age! I have also often heard (though do not know if true) that it is the mother's temperament that is much more influential to the puppies than the father's. If you are happy with the breeder's home environment, this is also a good sign.

Something you don't mention that is worth considering are health checks on Henry and Lexi. Hips, elbows, heart, etc. Many times "not-papered" also means not health-checked, and this would be a big concern to me. It is a personal choice, but I would not consider a puppy from a breeder who did not do these health checks prior to breeding.

On the other hand, if you've been seeing these puppies weekly for 8 weeks and have fallen in love, absolutely no one could blame you for not wanting to take your little pup home regardless. I sure couldn't resist in those circumstances!

 

Hello and welcome to the forum. It's difficult to say. As Emily says, many 2-year old Labradors are big and boisterous, especially when excited - for example by new people visiting - so that's not necessarily anything to be concerned about. If you saw any signs of aggression, I would walk away, but anything that could be put down to simple over-excitement - well, just see that as something that you're likely to have to deal with at some point with your Labrador, whatever its parentage. Labs are generally a bit nuts, end of.

As Emily also points out, the deal-breaker for me would be whether both parents have good health scores. That doesn't mean just a vet saying "yup, they're healthy", but it means genetics testing for things like Exercise-Induced Collapse and degenerative eye problems, as well as X-rays taken to give both hip and elbow scores. Without these being done, and without them being satisfactory results, I wouldn't even contemplate taking one of the puppies. Here is a article with more information: http://www.thelabradorsite.com/health-screening-for-labrador-diseases/

Parents with good scores for the hips and elbows isn't an absolute guarantee that your puppy will be free of joint problems, but it is far more likely that parents with dysplasia will pass that on to their offspring - and that means expensive surgeries and/or a lifetime of pain. Can you get insurance that will cover the cost of these surgeries, if necessary, if the parents don't have full health tests? It's worth looking into, wherever you are in the world. The surgeries and recuperation can run into many thousands of pounds/dollars/euros. Can you afford that if your insurance won't cover it?

 

Well, I was going to reply but it seems that great Emily's think alike! This is pretty much what I was going to say

 

I would say it depends what you want... My number 1 requirement for my puppy was a calm, steady nature, so a wild, exuberant, out-of-control sire would have been a "no" for me. Also, tbh I'd be very concerned as to WHY they had used this sire... If he's so completely bonkers and untrained, why did they think he should be allowed to mate and produce puppies, especially if as you say the place he lived was less than ideal? Was he just the only nice-looking male dog around, and they wanted a litter of puppies to make some money? I know that's the case with lots of litters, but do remember, they have a lovely calm bitch by the sound of things, and will be selling the puppies, where as you will be dealing with the result for the next twelve years...

 

Health and temperament are top of my list when looking at puppies, aspects of which are inherited. Like Karen I'm looking for dogs that are calm without being cowed even if they've had to train or encourage that it's still in there to be teased out.

I'd also be questioning why that sire was used.

 

Whilst I absolutely agree with the above, I think you have to take on board what the OP is looking for compared to what you might be looking for, @Karen and @bbrown - you are both looking for dogs that will work, so it's (very very) likely that the parents will be worked, too. Meaning that they will have almost certainly have been trained by at least reasonably skilled handlers from a young age. Whereas people looking for more pet-bred dogs will quite likely be seeing more of the "raw" dog. A dog that may not have been trained to settle and learn self control. How would anyone know how calm that bouncy Lab would have learnt to be with the same handling, or how bouncy "yours" might have been without? The whole nature vs nurture debate. Whatever the nature, any prospective parents of yours will have had oodles of nurture

 

That's true @snowbunny but there are still several question marks. Two years old is young for a stud, unless you really know what you're doing its early to tell if you've got a decent dog to breed from. While I expect the parents of pups I have had and will own in the future will be well trained I would argue that for a pet home natural temperament is even more important as it 'may' receive less training and it is more likely to have to integrate into a family.

 

I guess you just have to go with your gut feeling - there definitely are no guarantees that you will get your perfect puppy, no matter how carefully you research the genealogy. That said, making sure both parents of your prospective puppy have good temperaments AND excellent health scores will help the odds of ending up with a healthy puppy of good character - which ultimately is what we all want.

 

It certainly sounds as if, in this case, the sire hasn't been chosen carefully by someone who knows what they're doing, that's for sure.

@possum1982 any updates on this?

 

@possum1982 We bought our Harley from an "accidental" litter posted on Gumtree - similar to your Craigslist, I believe. I really wasn't thinking clearly at the time. Within the space of one month my mom had passed away and we had to have our new dog PTS because of SEVERE health problems that affected her quality of life. My mom had been very ill for a while and the strain was immense. Although we had been planning a dog for absolutely ages (about 8 years) the actual decision to get this puppy was not the normal well informed decision we would make. I am the absolute opposite of impulsive. But regardless of the back story, we bought and brought home this is yellow pup.
Why I am telling you this is not to tell you a tale of terror about a pup that was sickly or genetically skewed towards behaviourial problems. Harley is awesome. She is healthy - BUT establishing this has cost us a small fortune. We have had her xrayed at a young age because we have NO reliable history for her. Both DH and I have had about a hundred anxiety attacks because of things we just don't know because there is no medical history for Harls. And honestly, I know that buying from a reputable breeder doesn't mean that you will get a pup that is 100% problem free but it really ups the odds. And considering the amount of money we have spent on health checks, blood tests and xrays for Harls, we could have bought a pup from a registered breeder.
And I can promise you we will never do this again. If there is another pup, it will come from a reputable breeder. We are so much wiser. I am just grateful that we aren't learning the lessons at Harleys pain and suffering. The tests and xrays were done while she was in for her spay so less invasive and traumatising than it could have been.

 

Thanks so much for everyone that took the time to reply.

We went and spent more time with Monty and my heart said YES. It's been 3 days now and we are positively smitten. Thanks again xxx

Ps: I uploaded a picture of Monty as my profile... He is the BEST XXX

 

Glad you're feeling happy with your decision to get him I'm sure he'll be a wonderful member of your family.

 

He is so cute! Hope he settles in well and is laid back like his mum!

 

He does look very cute. When are you bringing him home?

 

Hello little Monty from big Monty xx

 

Ah congratulations x