breeding programme yes or no

hi. im sorry this isnt a pure labrador question. my lab passed away last year and i was looking for advice.
since my lab has gone my breathing has improved tenfold. therefore i was allergic to him. i am looking at buying an australian labradoodle with a wool coat. apparantly less allergic for me. there £2200. i cant afford this. its out of the question. ive been given the ' opportunity' of being part of a breeding programme. i get choice of litter bitch. the bitch wouldnt be mine as such for first 5 years but i get it at fraction of the cost. i therefore have to agree that breeders get to breed my bitch 3 times over 5 year period and dog will be away to wean pups for 7 weeks and 10 days for insemination each time. after 5 years the bitch becomes my dog. im not sure about this. does anyone have any thoughts or experience on this who could advise me if this is a good deal. i wouldnt get to keep any of the litter. thank you very much in advance for any replies.

 

No sorry I wouldn't do it it sounds like covert puppy farming operation.

 

I think there is a difference between puppy farms and commercial breeders, and what you are describing belongs to the latter, though it can be a fine line.
You need to think carefully about whether it is worth it to you to follow the breeders fairly exacting rules to obtain the dog of a breed you want at a reduced price. And are happy with their practices which they may not be entirely transparent about.
Commercial breeding is a bit frowned upon to say the least.

 

tbh swamp donkey they appear to be legite and well thought of breeders . i obviously wouldnt name them. i would be buying a dog from someehere else anyway who most likely wouldnt be any better than any other. i bought my last dog from a farmer who was breeding his working dogs. im sure he made money from this and i cant really control how the puppy market eorks so to speak. im just worried that i will get into this and then realise its a mistake and be stuck.im just not sure. they appear to be doing a selection type process on me to see if im suitable but i have slight reservations although the dogs they hsve look beutiful and are all checked etc and have 6 generation lineage i believe .

 

I personally wouldn't.

I'd rather not have a dog than be involved in something like that - it doesn't sound fully ethical.

And I agree that you can't control how the puppy market works but you can not contribute to it - the more people stop using puppy farms, back yard breeders and the unethical methods, there will stop being money in it and therefore it will reduce for that reason.

 

maybe a silly question but outwith rehoming centre where is ethical to buy a dog. im uneducated in thats sense. arent they all breeding dogs for money. and can i just state and im really not defending anyone but there not a backyard breeder they appear to be a well set up and established breeders who have good reviews online

 

Labradoodles are cross breeds that are not guaranteed to have a 'wool' coat. Breeders cannot tell you for sure that you'll end up with a minimally shedding dog.

There are lots of pure bred dogs that are guaranteed to have such a coat, like Poodles or Bichon Frise, or that have a minimally shedding coat. Here's a list from the Kennel Club: https://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/ge...ing-the-right-dog/non-shedding-breeds-of-dog/

I'd definitely look for another breeder that won't make you sign agreements for the future use of your dog.

 

anyway i think this is going down a different road. im just going to close this. i dont want to argue about breeding farms, backyard breeders and the ethics of it all. i was just wondering if anyone had ever done a similar thing and wondered if there was any unseen challenges,problems that werent at first obvious. im pretty confident in the breeder and i will just make up my own mind right or wrong. and thag will be that. but thanks for the input everyone

 

I think the potential problems are obvious already:
- not actually getting a non-shedding dog
- the breeder taking your dog back and not treating in a way that you're happy with or making decisions that you're not happy with
- potential complications from having litters
- having to keep and manage an entire bitch for years.

If you are comfortable with all that and have your heart set on this breeders' dogs then go ahead with it.

Whatever you decide to do I hope you have a long and happy relationship with your future dog.

 

ok thanks everyone. cheers

 

sorry. was looking at those other options. ive always been fond of the irish water spaniel. thanks oberon. i will have a good think whatever i do. we just need a new dog. homes to empty without one. thanks everyobe

 

Yes, things just don't feel right without a dog, do they. All the best for your search

 

Good luck on your search. I think you've already gotten some important opinions on your original question and lots to ponder. I'd just like to suggest that you also consider a standard poodle. Then you would be guaranteed "hair" instead of "fur" (so no shedding per say but you need to have them clipped regularly). They are cool looking, funny and very smart dogs with similar energy level to the other breeds you were looking at. The goofy show clips most people know are totally unnecessary and shaving them down to a basic cut reveals a very sleek and sporty looking dog which is definitely not "froofy".

For a very different temperament but still "hair", you could check out Spanish or Portuguese Water Dogs. Spanish version a bit more aloof family-only oriented dogs, shorter legs and broader body vs. the more well-known Portuguese version. Also lots available through rescue if you wanted to go that route.

 

A standard poodle would be a really good choice, alongside the irish water spaniel. I often see a couple of IWS at gundog training, lovely dogs!
If you google "standard poodle gundog" you can delve into some fascinating history on the breed

 

When I win the lottery, can give up the rat race and live in doggy paradise, I'm really tempted to get a standard poodle and do gundog training with it. Froofy hair cut and all

 

Race you for one! We can compare bouffants.. (sorry @Brian bobo....)

 

Back to the OP ... for me, and assuming for a moment that it's the most ethical breeder in the world, I couldn't deal with "my" bitch being taken from me to have litters. I would want to be completely hands-on in the whole process. The breeder of my puppy lost a bitch during whelping a few months ago, and it's completely terrifying and heart-rending. I couldn't go through the worry.

Most reputable breeders don't make money out of having litters. They do it generally to breed another puppy for themselves, or to work for some "higher cause" of progressing the breed. The cost of all the health tests, proper veterinary care, travelling to find the right mate, emergency bills if and when things go wrong, vet checks for the new puppies, not to mention their care, feeding and the sheer amount of time it takes, means they're lucky to come away just above breaking even. Commercial breeders can't give the same amount of care and attention to the dogs and puppies as a small breeder can, and, because they don't have the emotional investment in the dogs, would play the numbers game when it comes to deciding on emergency care for a bitch having problems.

I agree with @Oberon that, when looking for F1 hybrids (like a Labrador crossed with a Poodle) it is a complete lottery as to what characteristics you will get. You may get something that looks and behaves very much like a Poodle, or something that looks and behaves very much like a Labrador. Or something in between. Even within the same litter, there can be massive variation. It's only when you start breeding these crosses together that you can start influencing which of the characteristics you want to preserve, such as the hypoallergenic qualities of the Poodle. But, at F1 stage, you just don't know what's going to come out.

 

Welcome to the forum from us, Hattie 9 years and rescue boy Charlie 6 yearss. I agree, I would walk away it sounds awful and unethical.

My girl Hattie is a Labradoodle, as I understand the fact that they are described as 'hypoallergenic' is a myth which is why so many end up in rescue centres. Their coats vary enormously as does their behaviour. I can't rave about them enough, Hattie is a wonderful family dog and is also a Pets as Therapy dog, she will be 10 soon and my first dog. I wouldn't swap her for a litter of Labrador pups in a million years I did get her from a proper breeder where I met both parents and saw health certificates, was vetted heavily all day by the lovely lady who was no way going to give me one of her puppies if she didn't like all of us. We all had to go to meet her including my 4 children. I wouldn't have done it any other way.

 

The Australian Labradoodle is not just a Lab Poodle cross. It is a carefully designed dog with several other breeds in the lineage. If they really are Australian Line dogs they should have predicable characteristics, unlike the more common Lab Poodle cross that is common in the states.

 

But, but, we've all read that the creator of the Labradoodle, an Australian man, greatly regrets the cross. This is just one of many, many conversations you can read about on him and Labradoodles. Dr. Coren of course is very, very active with dogs himself.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/canine-corner/201404/designer-dog-maker-regrets-his-creation