As some of you know, the Pig has a big prey drive and walks are a constant struggle to keep her engaged with me and not off hunting. She trails a long line, and I change direction, throw food, run about, do little bits of training, LAT with bunnies etc and generally it is ok (but tiring and sometimes depressing). There are lots of animals around here so at least once a walk I usually have to grab the line to prevent a chase (I'll write another thread about that one day). I have been using a dog walker for a lunchtime walk three days a week when both me and OH are at work. She gets an off-lead/training walk with me morning and evening. The dog walker who we have used since we adopted her walked her with 6 other dogs, off lead, in the woods, which I assume is a combination of playing with the other dogs and free hunting for the Pig. For various reasons, walking her on lead wasn't really an option. But this summer we had to find a different dog walker because our road was closed for two months and the old one couldn't get to ours via the diversion. So we now have a lady in the village who is more easy-going, and walks the Pig with only 2 or 3 other dogs, in the woods. I asked her to walk her on lead because of her hunting. But now I am having pangs of guilt - the other dogs are generally off lead, and the Pig's pulling on the lead has got a lot worse since we started with the new lady and she has started jumping up at people on lead. Obviously I can't expect the dog walker to be stopping every time the lead goes tight or doing any training with her. She has also put on weight and I've cut her food. Am I depriving the Pig of fun and exercise on days where she is alone quite a bit? Will keeping her on lead with the dog walker really help me control her hunting off lead when she is with me? I'm not sure if I am being overly uptight about her training and not just letting her be a normal dog like everyone else. But I have put in so much work trying to get some control around wildlife that I don't want her to be practising hunting three times a week without me around. The idea of her just taking off after a deer or squirrel or scent trail and coming back when she pleases fills me with horror. But over the last three weeks I can't say I've seen much difference in her hunting drive or engagement with me - we have good days and bad days like we did before…so I don't know if I've done the right thing or not! Am I being sensible, or an over-controlling dog-mummy?
No, you are definitely being sensible. The last thing you want is your dog charging around the country chasing wildlife - especially if someone else is looking after her at the time! I think if she is never allowed off the lead with the dogwalker, then she will eventually come to accept that that is just how it is...
Lara, I can't offer much advice on the Pig's prey drive and going off hunting, as I have no experience of that as Monty has zero drive and stays close to me. (Don't hate me), however in terms of being on lead, please don't feel guilty. She is getting loads of off lead exercise anyway, every day by the sound of it, and I see no issue with three walks a week being on lead. Loads of dogs are on lead much more than that and get few off lead walks, and I think it's a good idea to stick with your training. I often do 'boring' pavement walks with monty for health reasons, which helps to keep him walking nicely on a lead, wears his claws down and keeps him used to walking in an unpredictable urban environment. He gets 2-3 fun group walks with his dog walkers off lead each week plus more sedate off lead walks at the weekend with us.
@Lara, I can't comment either on the Pig's prey drive, but I too don't think you should feel guilty about her spending some walks on a lead. My pup's currently in season so every walk has been on a lead for nearly three weeks and it and she has been fine. She still gets to explore and sniff. She still enjoys being out and actually, it given her more time to pick her own blackberries which she's loved! She's still tired after a walk too. I honestly wouldn't feel guilty.
@Lara , I am in agreement with others that you are doing the right thing, not being over controlling at all. You work so hard to get the results that you do, the last thing you want is her hunting instinct given free rein. It's much better for her, in my opinion any way, to have that interaction when you are at work than have nothing. It's just so difficult, I find to find people to care for them exactly as we wish that sometimes a safe compromise is the best option. I was going to say as Plum's mum has that whilst in season they are fine with lead walks.
@Lara, Charlie and Indie have so much in common I can assure you she is not suffering being on lead. Charlie was on lead/long training line for 3 whole YEARS with only 1 year of off lead in a loaned paddock. He is 6 1/2 years old and so fit I can't tell you. I do lots of other things with him e.g. clicker training, scent work, find it games, food bowl training etc. so he is mentally trained too. Please, please don't feel guilty as the last thing you want is to undo all the great work you have done by letting her free run. I totally understand how you feel, I used to feel so very guilty as Hattie is always off lead and Charlie would go nuts to be with her but now if we are in an area we can't let Charlie off lead he accepts that, mostly. I will add I don't believe you will ever get to a point that she won't hunt and I'm not saying that to discourage you at all it's just my very limited experience, to me that's a very tall order especially with a rescue Pointer cross. Charlie will hunt but he is in sight mostly , close enough for us to see him and he checks in, is popped on a off lead regularly during his walk. I believe it's the nature of the breed and way beyond my training abilities which I now accept and manage but it took me some years to get to this point. I was told by several 'gun dog' trainers that Charlie would NEVER be allowed off lead, really, yeah right Keep going you are truly doing a great job xx
Thanks, yes you are right about that, as of course I can't expect a dog walker to have her on a long line to stop her hunting, but equally if she is on a short lead, I can't ask them to ensure she always walks nicely with a loose lead either. It is like I have to choose whether to let her hunt, or let her practice pulling on the lead and lunging at stuff. I guess it is better to prevent the hunting and put up with the deteriation of lead walking...!
Oh bless her, picking her own blackberries the pig hasn't discovered them yet...probably for the best
Aw thanks Helen. Yep Charlie and Indie are peas in a pod I think. If I can do half as well as you have done with Charlie I'll be a happy pig-mummy. I agree with you that they will never stop hunting, but I am really working hard to try to teach her that she can in fact recall/stop/listen when hunting, just as she can when she's just bimbling around. I wouldn't mind her rushing about nose to the ground if I had faith that I could call her back or stop her if needed, but the longer I allow her to do it, the closer she can get to whatever she is hunting and the ears are slowly going deaf and red mist is descending...I had a failed recall today, after quite a long time of perfect recalls in more and more difficult settings, so I am a bit more depressed than normal. And there was no obvious reason why it failed - she just must have ran through a sniff as she was coming towards me and decided her tasty reward from me could wait
Oh, don't be, please, you can only work with what you've got, and it sounds like you do a tremendous job containing all that genetic drive.
Thanks but at some point I will have run out of energy keeping Indie out of mischief and give up and get a pug-in-a-jumper
What about hiring a dog walker that takes her on solo on leash walks? That's our current set up, and I do feel bad that she isn't romping around off leash and burning more energy with other dogs on the days she is home alone, however, her loose leash walking is soo much better as our dog walker does some training with her. I decided to switch to on leash solo walks for several different reasons (mainly because where we live, dog walkers bring 6+ dogs to dog parks and I know Quinn is not comfortable in that environment).
Don't be depressed Lara, although I certainly had many days feeling that way too but sometimes we forget about the massive improvements we have made. We always seem to focus on our not so good days which stay with us longer. @Selina has nailed it talking about the genetic drive with any Pointer or Pointer cross, it's massive it really is Many very experienced owners wouldn't have touched Charlie and Indie with a bardge pole xx
@charlie , @Lara , I found myself thinking about setters/pointers as I travelled down from Inverness by train, as anyone who's done it knows it goes through the Highlands, mile after mile after mile of heather clad mountains for which I believe those dogs were breed to work and hunt on -- I take my hat of to you both. Even Cassie has suddenly developed a hunting drive so I need to keep working hard on recall.
Haha it would have to be a very long barge pole as they'd be three fields away! Yes we were really naive when we adopted Indie. She wooed us with her pretty face and I really didn't consider properly what 'half English Pointer' could actually mean! On the upside, I'm a lot fitter than I would otherwise be
You are right @selina27 i forget that sometimes. Oh I would love to take the Pig to somewhere like that, miles away from any road or people, and just let her run. I don't think there is anywhere that I've been able to give her complete freedom, even the beaches we've been to have a road at one end, or a family having a picnic etc. I'd take the hit on her training for one day just to see what her instincts would be in that moorland environment. There was a big grousey moorland where we were on holiday in Wales but unfortunately there were sheep around so we couldn't let her run. But I did a little bit of quartering with her on her long line and she absolutely loved it grouse and pheasanty things definitely float her boat the most out of all the fun and tasty critters...I blame the genes!
@charlie @Lara In the nicest possible way-- you have put me off pointers for life But Indie and Charlie sound like lovely dogs with so much personality, hats off to you both for perservering and everything you've acheived so far. Its just those pesky genes as you've all said. I truly didn't realise what you were up against till I joined this forum. Our previous dog walker used to walk a lovely pointer, but I never understood why she was often on the lead in photos. Now I do.
Here's my pig this morning doing her Pointer thing. I believe she was pointing at a frog! You can also see her strangely short stumpy tail - half of what a pointer or a lab tail should be! A touch of autumn by Lara Maister, on Flickr
I think its probably a combination of 'rescue' and 'pointer'. Having pointer genes and not having careful training from puppy-hood is probably the perfect storm. I am a sucker for punishment and do catch myself saying 'it'll be much easier if we get our next pointer as a puppy...' and have forgotten my oath to stick to a pug-inna-jumper or sausage-dog-in-a-snood as next pup
