Hi all.We took our Dawson out for a walk at Goldhanger on Sunday and whilst walking towards the coastline he (Dawson) met some similar sized dogs which he thoroughly enjoyed running around then. Out of nowhere came a big Rottweiler who started sniffing around him and it worried me. I asked the owner to get the dog away from him and he started going on about being stereotyped and obviously in his eyes the fact that because his dog was off a lead meant that he trusted him. My back was getting up at this stage and was gearing up for defensive mode.I pulled Dawson away and left the other dog owners who weren't phased by the Rottweiler. I was on edge and annoyed all day!!! My question to you is...Was I a complete ass and should have just left it or should I always think safety first? My thoughts after the horse has bolted is that it was a big dog and could have at the very least injured Dawson in play because he was a very muscular animal. All your comments will satisfy my need for answers thank you.
Hi Dave, not an easy one to answer, but I will give my thoughts. We have Vanilla off lead a lot on either the Oval or the beach. I tend to look further afield then just where she is playing at the time, to try and read other dogs and see what type of dogs. If I see a dog on lead, depending on where they are and heading I will get her to come back and will then put her on a lead while we walk past. If I don't like the look of how some dogs interact with other dogs or their owners are not near, I tend to then move a different way, or get Vanilla past them as quickly as possible. In the early days I used to get this wrong every now and then, now I can pretty much tell before anything could potentially happen (I know there will still be times where this could be missed) but I think it depends on how you read the other dog. Plus Vanilla gives off very clear signals of when she doe snot like the situation. That is where I take my main cue from. As an example, I know she does not like long haired dogs ie: Border collies or German Sheperd's. She gets snatched at by them, and has come away with a scratch form a Border Collie once and nearly got her mussel/nose bitten by a German Sheperd. The owner was not phased at all, but I was lucky in that I picked the body language. I would not say you where an ass, as you have the right to your opinion and requests. Plus you are protecting little Dawson. The problem is that it was you that had the issue and I presume that the rest of the dogs played well after you left? Also I always think it comes down to age and how gentle dogs are. I never let Vanilla play with any older dogs until she was 12months old if they where to rough. Just to many things could go wrong. Anyhow those are my thoughts.
I personally find the smaller dogs to be much more troublesome than the big dogs. My rule is if the dog is off lead Stanley can play. I believe (maybe naively) that most dog owners are responsible and would keep an aggressive dog on a lead. So far, it's worked quite well for us. Stanley loves big dogs - Rottweilers, boxers and dobermans are his absolute favourites to play with. I've found them all to be gentle giants who are as daft as Stanley. @Emily_BabbelHund has had some gorgeous Rottweilers. Hopefully she'll come along and tell you a bit more about hers
I can see it from both sides...on the one hand, certain dog breeds are stereotyped and it must get tiresome after a while, especially if you know for certain yours is just a big cuddy teddy bear and wouldn't harm a fly. On the other hand, you don't know this, and the word of strangers isn't all that comforting, considering how many times you hear "oh he doesn't bite!" meanwhile, the dog is clearly Cujo.
You did the right thing. Anytime you're not comfortable with a doggie interaction you should get your dog out of that interaction. Plenty of times I have regretted not acting on that instinct, and because of that my dog got hurt. It doesn't matter if the other owners are offended, or if in reality the other dog wouldn't hurt a flea. Your dog is your only concern and you're their protector.
I think it's wrong to stereotype dogs by breed - but we all do it, and shouldn't beat ourselves up too much. For me, it's anything husky-ish, and border collies. I do think that Rotties, in general, are completely soft, but, at the end of the day, it's your dog, and you get to say which dog you want him socialising with. When you're not comfortable, you absolutely should step in to protect your dog. My main concern for a young puppy playing with a big dog is, as @Sven says, the potential for injury just from being over-enthusiastic. In the meantime, try to watch as much canine body language as you can, and learn what the signs of nice greeting are compared to tense ones.
I think you should listen to your gut. The breed is pretty irrelevant here - if you felt something was off about the owner, I'd say better safe than sorry and just book it out of there. You may meet up with this dog and owner again and learn that they're good guys and can be trusted with Dawson. Maybe you'll end up having a good laugh about how you were worried about the big bad Rottie who turned out to be a marshmallow. Maybe however, you'll learn they guy was a jerk, his dog took after him temperament-wise and you were wise to steer clear. You may never know. Heh, heh - yep, you knew I couldn't keep quiet on this one! Let me just step on my soapbox... We all have our breed prejudices based on personal experiences. They can be positive as well as negative. My experience with Rotties is that they actually tend to be more chilled out than a lot of other breeds. The closest I've found in temperament is Newfoundlands and Bernese Mountain Dogs. HOWEVER, what I will tell you is this: some breeds (Rotties included but to a much larger extent pit bulls and Staffies) attract a certain type of idiot owner who is not only less likely to train them positively, they may actively encourage their dogs to act in socially inappropriate or dangerous ways. My strategy was always to pay very close attention to the *body language of the human, no matter the breed of dog, and take that as a "Can I trust this dog?" indicator. And if you feel something is off...just get out. In his lifetime, Brogan was badly attacked only a few times and there was no commonality of breeds (Golden Retriever, Boxer, Poodle, Maremma and Presa Canario). *"body language" and not "body" is important here. I've met some truly scary-looking massive dudes who approached Brogan and me in the street only to have them pull out photos of their beloved Rotties and literally start crying as they told me about their dogs while hugging Brogan. This happened to me in France, Belgium, Italy and Germany...to the point where I almost knew what would happen as soon as some big leather-clad guy would step in our path. Finally, in defence of the Rottie owner and his perhaps less than ideal handling of the situation, I feel I should also say this: the outright scorn and verbal abuse of the general public towards so-called "aggressive breeds" gets really wearing and can cause your initial reaction to be not so gracious. People crossed the street to avoid us, yelled at us, kicked Brogan and worse. And this was with me looking like your kindly portly auntie who makes you sandwiches with the crust cut off and Brogan in his service dog cape and silly bandana. I felt that I had to be better, kinder, more level headed and patient 100% of the time in 100% of situations because I had chosen to have a Rottweiler. 20 years of Rottie boys and it did not get easier, I just got better at masking my emotions and diffusing scary situations. I would not trade my time with my boys for anything and I went into Rottie ownership knowing the score, but it seriously wears down on your soul.
Awesome and thoughtful comments from others, so just chipping in to say I know how you feel. I was very protective of Jess as a pup and had a few moments like yours. I felt like a bit of an idiot sometimes but overall don't regret it at all. And definitely a big boisterous dog can hurt a pup so it's good to be aware of that. I chilled out a lot with time but am still probably on the protective side - I just try to direct Jess away at a much earlier point so it's not as noticeable to the owners!
I really do think it's up to you who your dog socialises with, but in this situation, it was also up to you to take Dawson out of it, not for the random stranger, in a group of strangers, who's dog is not threatening at all to be removing his dog. Sorry, just my thoughts.
Thanks for all the comments as they all add to my thoughts. I didn't want to be a big girls blouse but also didn't want to witness something more serious. I feel a lot better better now,
@Dave Bennett I completely understand your reaction. I am incredibly protective of Harley, especially because she has been fortunate enough to have mostly positive, and only slightly negative interactions with other dogs. It has also, however been a huge lesson to us that you can't judge a breed by its stereotype. From puppy socialisation class Harley has made friends witth 2 pitties and since then an older staffie. She plays very well with these dogs and all interactions have been so good. But all three dogs have been raised to be social and friendly. Harley definitely struggles to "understand" some breeds, especially the loud barkers. She enjoys GSD's and I remove her from BC's because I have just found them too snappy. So I agree with everyone - follow your instinct. The worse that can happen is that Dawson misses out on some play chances, he will get plenty more. As Harley has matured she is super good at reading other dogs and she will remove herself from an uncomfortable situation if we don't remove her first. But as a younger pup she thought everyone loved her, so we were definitely more protective. We have a lovely rescue Rottie that lives down the road from us and we occasionally meet her out on an on lead walk. She is just as playful as Harley and just as silly. Unfortunately for her owner, she pulls and lunges terribly so we usually walk on either sides of the road. The two dogs just amp each other up too much. The funniest I have seen is a St Bernard pup (8 months) in class. She tried to play with Harley and Harley was completely lost. They were diefnitely speaking different languages.
I don't think you need to feel you were in the wrong at all. I think that anybody, at any time, should be ready to step in and remove their dog from a situation they don't feel completely happy with, and that everyone needs to fulfill their obligation as a responsible dog owner. This guy was a complete jerk, in my opinion. There you are, with a small puppy, and you ask him to keep his big hefty dog under control, and he goes off on one at you! Any one with a smattering of sense, or with a bit of empathy, would have understood your feelings. Having had my dog badly bitten in the past, through absolutely no fault of her own, I feel very strongly that I don't need to explain why I don't want my dog to interact with any particular dog or breed. If I put my dog on the lead and ask them to do the same, it makes very wary and angry if they try to reason with me and tell me their dog is friendly or just wants to play - invariably the reason they won't put their dog on the lead is because they cannot recall or control it. The time Poppy got so badly bitten was when a group of three ridgebacks met us on the path. I felt uncomfortable, but the woman assured me they were all friendly. Poppy lay down submissively - and one of the b*stards bit her so badly, she had to have emergency treatment and stitches. Never again will I trust a stranger's assessment of a situation over my gut feeling. If you felt something wasn't quite right for Dawson, then you were right to take him out of the situation. PS My dogs play with loads of other dogs - I am just cautious about large dogs that I don't know, particularly in a group scenario.
There are a couple of Rotties that we see at one of the dog parks we go to, and they never worry me at all. We even have two Wolf Hybrids that are well behaved. I never worry much about dogs in a park, unless they are really obnoxious. Most folks with aggressive dogs don't take them to off leash dog parks. We would be more likely to meet them out in the woods, but even then most off leash dogs around here are either friendly or ignore us. Cooper pays more attention to me and her tennis ball than see does to other dogs, but she does also play with other dogs, especially if they like to run or chase. We had a great dog wreck at the park last week. A young Golden decided to go after the ball I had chucked for Cooper. They were coming from different directions and ran into each other almost head on. Both of them were really shocked, since neither seemed to see the other coming. Cooper was fine afterwards, and I think the Golden was to, though she limped a little initially.
Looking at this is several ways it is a case of OK perhaps you over reacted. You saw a large dog approach your pup and was uncomfortable - absolutely fine to be aware of potential problems. Then the big dog sniffed your dog - perfectly normal behaviour and quite possibly you over reacted based upon breed. In all honesty would you have reacted the same if it was a Lab? The other owners and dogs wrre unconcerned by the Rottie - all a good sign; but you removed Dawson from the scene. Potentially a couple of problems here. It is very important that Dawson gets to meet and greet dogs of all ages and sizes and learns to meet and greet appropriately. Also there is a potential to create reactivity in Dawson - if he was concerned he may well feel there is every reason to be concerned because you took him away from the big dog therefore justifying his concerns. Or even have created concerns meeting large dogs because you removed him from from the scene leading to the potential of big dogs are scary. My girl at 14 weeks was playing with 3 large Cane Corsos, a boxer, border collie cross and 2 LabxGSD crosses all of whom were huge with no problems what so ever. Yes it was scary for her to meet and play with these huge monster dogs but she never came to any harm and now loves large dogs. I tend to find that big dogs are aware of their size when playing and are careful - if not of course no one would want to play with them.
Dogs don't think "I was scared and my owner took me away which means they think it was scary too and therefore I was right to be scared". If a dog is concerned/scared then the right thing to do is to take them away to alleviate their anxiety. Put some distance between them and the scary dog so they can relax a bit, and reward them for tolerating that distance. Then when they're ok with that try again a little bit closer.
If I was worried, I would have just turned and left with my dog - rather then asking the owner to call their dog away. This is usually the easier option, rather than trying to explain to the owner - which often doesn't end well! I'm always really careful with Lucky when we meet puppies - he is sometimes a bit rude and pushy with play. He wouldn't hurt them, he knows to be more gentle, but he might scare them! Usually he doesn't want to greet puppies now, but if he does I make sure he does a quick hello and then call him to leave. I feel like it is my job to make sure a puppy doesn't have a bad experience because of my dog.
I would never let a young puppy play with a big group of dogs, let alone 'huge monster dogs'. The potential for injury is just too great.
I think interacting with big dogs is brilliant. As a tiny puppy, Luna fell asleep on top of a Leonberger one day, and happily trotted around in a park with a Dogue de Bordeaux. Some big dogs are also wonderful at laying still and playing the most gentle bitey-face games with puppies. We didn't get to meet any of those. But big dogs who want to play in any more physical way than that is a big "no" for me. "My dog never came to any harm" isn't good enough for me. We all know (or have heard of) someone who smoked for 40+ years without succumbing to lung cancer. It doesn't mean it's safe.
Exactly - and it works, they slowly gain confidence. Our own confidence is similar, the more good experiences we have with our dogs + other dogs we that have, the more we relax. But, @Atemas will tell you - we can relax too much! I work on 'relaxed but alert' .
