Last Saturday at our training class all went well, it was in the hall due to the rain, just 3 other dogs. We lots of heel, and distance control, beginnings of anyway, sending her away to locate treat under a basin type thing, and recall all woven into the exercises, finishing with a minute wait and returning in a haphazard fashion. She did really well, as did all the dogs, I know she's older but it's the right time for us. I'm struggling with the distance control but it's beginning to come. Today we've been to gundog training, it all passed in a bit of a blur, things went a bit belly up! To start with we had to put our dogs in "wait" and move away with a view to returning to them. One dog, a 4 yr old Gr, broke quite quickly, followed by another -- Cassie didn't but was a quivering wreck! Then she did break but ran to me, so I Popped her back, I think that happened twice, before I returned to her while the other dogs were sorted. So, for her, she did quite well, I think now I write it down. Then onto the retrieves hmmm.. reluctant to pick it up, more interested in smells in the field. But with some encouragement from me did so, there was some going to the black lab she wants to play with, some returning to the trainer with the dummy , and some returning to me in a very chaotic manner. We called it a day with the dummys after one success and practised sit/wait some more (is that steadiness?). The GR who is apparently in some sort of remedial phase continued to run amok and virtually absconded so there was plenty of opportunity for me to do LAT.
That sounds pretty good! Lots of great training exercises, and sounds like you kept good control and used the training opportunities yourself. (I tend to get stressed when group classes fall apart) well done both of you!
Steadiness generally means "steadiness to fall", meaning the dog will remain sat while dummies (or game) are landing around her and will only go once sent. Or "steadiness to shot", meaning the dog doesn't "run in" when they hear a shot fired. But, yes, in its most basic sense, it's a proofed sit/stay
These group sessions sometimes do go a bit belly-up to begin with - it's quite difficult for the dogs to maintain focus. But that's exactly what it's all about - in a few weeks they will be able to sit together in a "wait", and eventually you'll be able to call them out individually! It's hard work, and tiring for the dogs, but ultimately really worth it, I think.
And it gets us out of the house ! I'm ok with it all, Cass wasn't the worst today, and you have to push out of the comfort zone sometime. I thought to myself today that really as a companion and family pet at 19 months she's just fine, very quiet and undemanding in the house and great fun to walk, in that regard I couldn't wish for more. But I will continue seeing what else we can achieve as long as it's enjoyable.
That sums up how I feel about Jess these days too. We could definitely do more with her training but I'm much less goal driven about it than i was at first - I just want to enjoy her company really. It's great that cassie is doing so well - they do seem to have progressed along similar paths!
Yes @Beanwood , I'd like to get started with a hunt cue, so some of your ideas would be fab. Would I find such things in Clicker Gundog or Retrieving for all Occasions books? I was thinking of using her little puppy dummy with some scent on. I need to up my involvement with her out and about, do some training sessions rather than just walks. Annoyingly she has taken a liking to my neighbours dog's poo, she ignores most, but she can sniff that one out yards away So I would like to try and get her to use her nose in a more positive way, from my perspective any way This is a new spanner in the works, he's a lovely dog a sort of Romanian sheep dog and she loves playing with him when we meet up in the woods, but it's a nuisance when she goes hunting his poo, she's never bothered with any poo from the other dogs here.
Well things are getting back on track training class wise, after the Christmas break. Last Saturday we went back to our general class and worked really hard for an hour, I don't know about being mentally tiring for Cass it sure is for me too! All work around the distractions of other dogs and I'm really seeing the benefit of this in our daily life, I think the penny is dropping as she matures, plus she has had several walks lately with other dogs so perhaps they are not such a novelty. We will be joining the advanced class next time and will be doing scentwork. She did break her sit /wait before the minute a couple of times, which normally she's really strong on, so I have been practising this week. Today we went to the gundog group, only 2 of us, as other handlers fighting off lurgies. She was better at retrieving, although still took it to the other dog a couple of times. He is a lovely 5 year old GR, as steady as they come, so good to be alongside Cassie. But the last one the trainer threw it at lot further and she shot out with enthusiasm and returned the dummy to me, albeit not to my hand, but it was a big improvement. This is taking place in a large open field that has many rabbits, a big distraction for her, so a small step for many but big for her. And her sit/wait was better. So I'm feeling pleased over all.
That sounds great! Super that she can work alongside the rabbit distractions, and with another dog, too. Good girl!
Well done to both of you. We have found having a break for a few weeks does seem to make a big improvements when we start again, more enthusiasm in everything. So maybe the break helped
Thanks for your comments, the rabbits weren't visible, don't want to big her up too much, but she isn't really used to such a wide open space so still distracting for her. Yes @Sven, I fully agree that having a break can be very beneficial, I've noticed that with Cassie.
Cassie's retrieving desire seems to be rather fragile and changeable, at times she can be enthusiastic and bring it to me beautifully, and at other times she can be lack lustre and drop the object before she gets back to me. Sometimes she doesn't want to pick it up at all ! Quite often if she has a different toy or dummy to retrieve she is very keen, but seems to lose interest if I continue to use the same thing. But she has been much better at gundog training the last 2 weeks. The thing is a while back I was working through the clicker retrieve, with good results, then along came the hiatus of phantom preg/ devil dog antics/ another season and retrieving went on the back burner and I never went back to the clicker retrieve, but did a little bit of the Retrieving for all Occasions for holding it to hand. Now I think I've muddled myself and probably her. Would I be better just to stick with one method i.e just clicker training or follow R. F.A.O technique? Or maybe if I introduced some hunting games with a scented dummy perhaps that would keep her interest. I'd be grateful for peoples thoughts.
How old is Cassie? I always have had much luck with short sessions. In fact, my Jack is almost 4 months and on our 3 walks throughout the day I may throw a scented bumper 4-6 times each. If he starts to drop the bumper prior to finishing the retrieve, I slowly walk backwards with my hand out repeating Jack fetch and this seems to cure my issues Always leave Cassie with wanting to fetch more so, just a few retrieves and stop. It seems you have plenty of time to develop her fetching skills. You may also face some challenges as they start losing their milk teeth and this is the part when we find other fun activities! I'm sure others have more advice, Best of luck!
I like the reverse lure method from RFAO and have had better success than with the clicker retrieve, but you have to be really careful it doesn't become too punishing, so set her up for success. As @Idaholandho says, keep sessions really short. Train the dog in front of you - if she's not in the mood, don't ask her to continue, change game to something you know she'll enjoy. Does she like tug? Playing retrieve games with a tugger can help build the retrieve chain. The Tug-e-nuff frisbees are a hit with my lot (even Willow, who doesn't "do" tug) for this, too.
I quite often play hugely exciting retrieving games, with something other than a proper dummy, for instance a dummy ball on a rope. The dogs don't have to wait to be released, nor do I insist on a proper delivery. They love it, it makes them very keen to run out fast, and it doesn't seem to affect their steadiness or delivery with real dummies either, as they seem able to differentiate. I think with a dog who is not terrifically keen, it's important not to make retrieving become a chore. Make it loads of fun, and don't obsess about the delivery, it's more important she brings things back to you.
Thanks Karen, that's exactly where we are at present. It's just strange the way she blows hot and cold. The trainer at my gundog group brings a variety of toys, as you suggest which is effective, and considering that she's expected to do this in a huge open field which smells of sheep and rabbits, and other dogs are present, she's doing pretty well really. It wouldn't really matter, but there have been times when she's been very, very enthusiastically retrieving dummies from a steep bracken covered bank and loved it, I just want her to have that enjoyment but somehow it's not happening!
I am just wondering if there is more than one thing happening here. Is her outrun pretty confident? I note you refer to her drive here. If Cassie is confident then it could be that you need to make things a bit more interesting and challenging for her Reverse luring as @snowbunny suggested could be the way forward wrt to delivery to hand, plus making it a really fun game, maybe indoors first? Since Bramble has been picking up, she is much more confident and sure of herself. She is though much happier with complex retrieves where she needs to hunt, if there is shot all the better! She gets so excited and happy! Bouncing around, not wanting the training to stop...but...Me training with dummies, short blinds, directional cues is just soooo boring! A bit like repeating the times table ad infinitum. She switches into teenage Kevin mode. I can pinpoint the moment she switches off..sigh...It is the most challenging part I think, trying to find interesting and motivating ways to work on weak spots. You will get there, don't rush, build up a repertoire of fun things Cassie loves to engage with that you both enjoy doing
Yes, and yes, I think she is more motivated by hunting for the dummy, it's just frustrating because it's as if a wall (metaphorically) is blocking us getting back to that! That's what the trainer said yesterday! Thanks. I think my Cassie is quite complex little character!
