Just sharing my present ongoing experience with this and an update of my boy My boy is now 8 mths old. 3 weeks ago he had bilateral surgery on his elbows and had a cartilage chip removed form his left joint and numerous cartilage and bone chips from his right. Vet said the right one was worse he had worked on. Success of operation on that elbow low now. He came home on carprieve and antibiotics. All ceased now. He is still limping on his right leg I had a script for continued analgesia but didn't use it. I had some Cartrophen(Pentosan) left as I had tried a course earlier before the op. I felt the analgesia was masking too much and he was moving about which I didn't want. I have now commenced another course of Cartrophen to try to build more Cartilage. He is on Tumeric, NZ Green Lipped Mussel, Msm Glucosamine with Chondroitin and Omegas. I have lightened his weight and at this time he is only walking on the lead short distances. Plan to commence swimming in a few weeks.i also massage his legs. He is not confined but he is fairly sensible and don't allow excitement I feel that he will always limp on that right leg but best I can do is maintain It and do the best I can do I am wondering if members from o/s who use Cartrophen (Pentax), have access to it in tablet form? It isn't available in Australia for vets in tablet form, only injections. It is available for human use, mainly to treat recurrent UTIs. The tablet form comes in 100mg which is the same dose and injections Is there anybody on the forum with experience on treatment and maintainace of Labs with FCP and can they share their experience with me please. It would be very much appreciated. Thanks
Hi @Tracey D I unfortunately do have experience of FCP and ongoing management. I can't do a full post right now but will tomorrow from the laptop (easier than the phone) , but wanted to let you know I had seen your post Til tomorrow
Some drugs don't get absorbed well in the gut and some drugs can also be "denatured" and rendered ineffective if taken orally. Hence the need for some drugs to be given parenterally - by injection, bypassing the guts. I could only find information about oral cartrophen being used to treat a human condition called interstitial cystitis, which is like a chronic cystitis but without an infection driving it. I would guess its mainly the anti-inflammatory effect of the cartrophen that is useful here. Drugs.com website says the following about Cartrophen.... Cartrophen Vet is a semisynthetic polysulphated polysaccharide which possesses anti-inflammatory and anti-arthritic chondroprotective properties. Cartrophen Vet has the following actions: (a) Stimulates chondrocytes to synthesize cartilage matrix; (b) Stimulates synoviocyte biosynthesis of hyaluronic acid; (c) Inhibits enzymes implicated in the degradation of cartilage matrix components and in the release of inflammatory mediators; (d) Anti-inflammatory activity by inhibition of arachidonic acid metabolism; (e) Mobilizes thrombi and fibrin deposits in synovial tissues and subchondral blood vessels, thus increasing the perfusion of the joint, with resulting improvement in cartilage nutrition; (f) Mobilizes lipids and cholesterol in synovial and subchondral blood vessels. https://www.drugs.com/vet/cartrophen-vet-can.html I couldn't find any reference to an oral form in dogs. This stuff - Is thought to have similar effects to the cartrophen, but for a lot of it the evidence is very weak or non-existent (particularly the turmeric) You should double check with your vet its okay to take all this if you are using the cartrophen injections.
Hi there Monty has the severed elbow dysplasia in both his elbows joints, similar fragments to how you describe, but has luckily not had surgery. Also has bilateral HD. We have managed this though daily NSAIDS, acupuncture, cartrophen supplements inc omega 3, hydrotherapy, laser treatment, restricted exercise and weight control. He has a cartrophen injection every 6 to 8 weeks, and has done from 11 months, he's now nearly 4. His supplements include chondroitin, glucosamine, tumeric and boswellia extract, our own rehab vet's brand. And 1800mg daily of omega 3. My thought is that you can't easily separate these into the works/not works piles, apart from the obvious surgery. In my opinion this combination of treatments is offering a (Hopefully) cumulative, preventative effect in helping to slow or lessen the progression of arthritis and degenerative joint conditions in my dog. I could trial the efficacy of each individual treatment by removing it, but as Monty has some of these covered by his insurance, and others I can afford to pay, then I do not test this and go along with the recommendations of my very well qualified vet. Our next treatment to trial (before surgery)will be platelet rich plasma therapy...
Our boy was diagnosed with elbow issues as well. Both elbows FMCP. Left one is worse. Also one bad hip.He has been on meds for several months with no improvement. Next week he will be having surgery on the left elbow. It is devastating for us. I have been reading everything I can about the surgery and recovery. His breeding is spot on..all 5 generations have been champions and grand champions..all his litter-mates are sound. Our big boy "drew the straw" and has been in pain since he was 4 months old. I am not a breeder but a pet owner. Honestly I thought that by saving up the money so I could get a pup from a top breeder,the pup would be sound. Boy was I wrong. Now..we will do what ever is needed in hopes that he will live a decent, happy life. I would like to thank everyone on this forum for their support and well wishes.
I understand how you feel. I showed my boy for a short period and was winning. Best in group one show. All finished now. Parents champs and supremes. Siblings all fine. It's something tha can just rear its ugly head I don't seem to be having any interactions with any ends or supplements
I hate it for my puppy. We have a great vet so hopefully pup can enjoy life soon. Sorry to hear about your dog and all the others that are in pain.
Hi @Tracey D - apologies for slow response, it's been a bit hectic the last day or so. My girl first started limping at 5 months of age but upon examination showed no signs of pain or distress, so we left the vet with some Metacam and order for restricted exercise for 2 weeks. We were allowed to walk on lead for 15 minutes twice a day with no running or jumping. The limp disappeared without any problems. At 7 months the limp reappeared so an immediate trip to the vet. Xrays taken and referred to an Orthopaedic Surgeon for review. We then got a phone call from the vet practice that the surgeon wanted to see us so an appointment was made for the following week. Following a full examination during which my girl finally showed a little discomfort. He had seen a Fragmented Coronoid Process on the x-ray and wanted to assess the elbows, and hips in person. It was agreed that surgery was the only option particularly as there was early signs of arthritic inflammation,but we agreed to have a scan first so that we would have a full picture of what was happening with the elbows. The scan revealed not only the fragmentation but also that there was a malformation within the elbow on her right, the left elbow was perfect. One week later we had surgery on the right elbow to remove the bone fragment, there is nothing much that can be done for the malformation. And so began our recovery. We were allowed 3 x 3minute walks a day for the first 4 weeks when new x-rays would be taken and re-assessed by the surgeon. The recommendation was for crate rest, but as my girl is such a little star we never needed the crate. The post op x-rays gave us the all clear so that we could slowly start rebuilding our exercise. We had been recommended a hydrotherapist (well the only one within 3 hrs drive ) by the vet and we began a weekly session of massage and hydrotherapy to help relax, build and tone the muscles in her right shoulder and leg and our exercise was extended 1 minute at a time on one walk a week for the first few weeks, we were then allowed to increase a second walk 3-4 days after as long as there was no reaction. So very slowly we got back to 2 x 30 minute walks a day having received the all clear from the vet 8 weeks after surgery and two course of hydrotherapy. She stopped limping on her leg during the 3rd week after surgery, but of course she only had one elbow operated on, not both. We were told no jumping, no agility type activities, to give glucosamine and chondroitin supplements, sensible exercise and weight management. The surgeon was of the opinion that we would probably need to start cartrophen injections within 9 months to a year from the operation. At the time of diagnosis I raged against the unfairness of ED, raged as to why it was my carefully selected pup that was affected. Like you I had researched breeders, checked health results to ensure that my puppy was a health pup; unfortunately ED doesn't work like that. Although we have x-rays which rate the elbows, and only dogs with 0 scores should be bred from, it doesn't mean that a puppy from a dam or sire with 0 elbows can't be affected by ED . So where are we now, at 3.5yrs of age? We had some intermittent limping in July/August so a trip to the vet. Examination showed that both elbows were quite inflamed - how I wish my girl wasn't so damn stoic!! The vet wasn't surprised that the left elbow is now affected as he said ED always becomes bi-lateral over time due to the extra stresses. So we had a course of a painkillers and no hint of a limp. We made the decision though that now was the time to start on regular cartrophen courses so we had our first course in September and have everything crossed that we can get to March 2018, 6 months after the initial injection, before starting another course. We have weekly hydrotherapy sessions as a boost to the exercise regime. We have moderate exercise - 45mins to an hour in the morning and 30 minutes late afternoon. When we go on holiday we allow more exercise so we can enjoy walking/swimming in different places but longer walks one day means a more relaxed easy day the next. My vet is much of the view that she is a young dog so needs to enjoy life, so yes she does zoomies, whenever she can, chases after balls although only released to chase once the ball has stopped moving, has enjoyed 121 gundog lessons and shown a lot of natural ability and last week we enjoyed some great time together away from home, just the two of us, learning all about parkour and hoopers and trying things we had never tried before. So apologies for the long post but try not to despair, there really is life after a diagnosis of ED - it isn't the end of the world, even if it does feel like it right know. Don't worry about what you can't do, try and think and concentrate on what you can - you'll be amazed how much of that there is. I don't know what the future holds for us but I know that we plan to enjoy every day together and live pain free as much as we can.
It's been a month since Reuben had surgery. He still has a limp in the right front leg as bad as he did before surgery. I imagine he will always have it. It's hard to restrain an eight month old pup. Today I took him to the lake. Maybe it's too early but he is going crazy from not getting out and I think that is doing more harm than good. He got bored yesterday and dug a small hole that made his limp worse. There is only so many bones you can give a dog. I took his toys away because they make too frisky. He is bored with walking a few houses away. He looks at me and I breaks my heart. He enjoyed the water today. I kept him on the lead and walked him chest deep through the water on the lead for 20 mins. I will build that up slowly. Zoomies are out of the question for my dog. His right elbow had quite a few pieces removed and it would probably be detrimental for him to run around. Sometimes he gets the wind in his tail and takes off in the backyard and I have to grab him and calm him. The only time he is ever going to do normal dog things is when he is in the water and retrieving his toy. It's just the way it's going to have to be. I spend time just lying with him in the backyard and massaging his legs and brushing him. He can't even socialise with other dogs anymore because he will jump about. I have to prevent more fragments. I'm trying to build up cartilage. One thing I am going to look into is therapy dog training. I am a mental health nurse and I feel Reuben would make a good therapy dog. He is such a person lover and very intelligent. Unfortunately though, he formal training is limited because he was being shown and taught to free stand for the ring. Sit and all the other commands not taught. He does sit now though but because he is restricted mobility wise, I haven't taught anything else but sit and wait. He does walk well in lead though.
