Hi All, This is probably gonna be a long one. Feel free to pick and choose what you read/respond to. I just need to get this out/vent my concerns/get support. I feel like I'm being the worst dog mom and/or missing something! I hope I don't come across like a damn crazy person. If anyone has experienced anything like this, I would LOVE some insight. If anyone is willing to read this and offer some virtual hugs, I appreciate you too. Helpful Background: I deal with anxiety, and it seems to have manifested itself in getting a puppy. Cassie is a nearly 8 month old Golden Lab. I've had dogs (lab mixes) all my life, but I've never had much to do with raising a puppy. All of our past dogs have been amazing, and they have all just been so different to Cassie, I guess I just feel like I'm messing up big time. Our last dog, died from bone cancer at age 9. A year leading up to the diagnosis, I was holding him on a leash and one of our customers' kids (who had been loving on him throughout the afternoon) came up to say goodbye to him. He was focused on something at the end of the driveway and I think he was on guard from that and he attacked her face when she touched him. She was OK-ish (just a few stitches, thankfully), but I was HORRIFIED. It all happened so fast, I didn't even have a chance to stop it. I too, was focused on what he was looking at and didn't see her come up. I think this is mainly where my anxiety with another dog comes from. I'm terrified that Cassie will be aggressive and hurt someone, especially since we have a new baby in the family (not in the house, a new grand baby for my parents, who I live with, but he will be around Cassie throughout the following years.) Because of this, I have worked hard to try and socialize Cassie, getting her used to people, kids, dogs...I'm just so overwhelmed by everything. I've read up on all the signs of stress/anxiety in dogs. I constantly read stories on here of people's experiences with their dogs to see if my dog does things that theirs does. I feel like I'm CONSTANTLY checking to see if she's showing signs of it that my head is playing tricks on me. "Was that her turning her head?" "Was that her showing me the whites of her eyes?" I guess I'm STILL confused about it and what means what in what context. I feel like I'm so worried I'm reading things wrong. I'll try to address my questions/concerns by number so if you wish to concern, you can address which one you're talking about. I've also attached some pictures of her 1) Cassie always looks...sad. She wags her tail a lot (especially when we first get home and in the morning) and seems so excited to greet people on walks, when we have visitors, but when we are doing something else, she spends a lot of time sitting on her rug in the kitchen just watching us. I'm paranoid that she's sad, or upset with us!? Photos for reference: https://imgur.com/a/fywpS 2) I'm SO confused about mixed messages about resources/food guarding. It's been another source of anxiety for me. I've worked hard since she was a puppy to toss treats her way randomly when I pass her and she's eating, when she's playing with a toy, or enjoying a special treat. My thinking is if I can prevent it before it starts, great! I was playing the trading game (ask her to drop, give her a treat and pick up the toy/treat, give it back to her) randomly, but I've been reading that this can actually lead to MORE resource guarding. She doesn't seem to notice when we walk by her if she's playing with a toy/chew/or eating, but she did growl at her for a second when she was trying to get something she stole from outside out of her mouth because she wouldn't drop it. We had no idea what it was and we were scared! Her growling at my Mom scared me a lot, and kind of brought back the anxiety. When it comes to toys, she almost ALWAYS brings them to be on her own to chew on them up against me and happily drops balls for us to throw for her, but now I'm second-guessing it after the incident with my mom. She ended up getting it from Cassie when my mom got a treat and Cassie dropped it quickly, but what if I don't always have a treat on me and I need to get something from her!? What if the trading game is making something worse? 3) Chewing plastic. SHE LOVES chewing plastic. Coat hangers, frisbees, plastic water bottles. I (probably stupidly) googled it and it says it's often from boredom and/or anxiety, so naturally now I'm worried that my dog is bored or anxious. I'm big on enrichment and try to give her stimulating things to do. She eats out a puzzle feeder/kong for breakfast and dinner, she gets to go outside and sniff/wander/play around on the farm minimally 2 times a day, and usually a walk too! I have been down for 6 weeks with a knee injury, so I know she hasn't been getting as much training since my Mom is so busy and doesn't have time to do all the above PLUS that (and I used to do it, but I am on crutches and am limited). Any other plastic chewers/help? Could she still be teething!? 4) Unpolite Greetings. Another thing that makes me nervous is how she greets guest and us when we get home. She immediately runs to get a toy/chew/treat and run to whoever is there to greet them, rubbing up against their legs, tail wagging and body basically wiggling back and forth...while growling at them! it's very impolite, and while I'm fairly certain that it's her way of initiating play with them, it does deep down make me nervous and I'd like to try and stop it as much as possible. Anyone else experience this? 5) White of her eyes/staring: I've read multiple places that dogs showing the whites of their eyes is a sign that they want you to back off. I feel like I'm crazy! I feel like she must have the most WHITE EYES EVER! She's always looking back at me when we're walking to my room, or outside and I can see the whites of her eyes. When she's laying down and looking up at me, whites. I assume this is all just out of context, right? Dogs show their whites of their eyes because she has to move her eyes to look at me. Does anyone else have a dog that watches them ALL THE TIME? Brushing my hair? Staring. Eating? Definitely staring. Cleaning? Staring. If my other dogs did this, I clearly never noticed it (ignorance is bliss). Reference photos: https://imgur.com/a/fywpS See Photo 2! 6) Is it OK to put puppies to bed/nap? Cassie sleeps on her bed in the hallway in between two gates right outside my parents' bedroom. She's slept here through the night since she was a puppy. In the evenings, after she's been busy playing, it seems like she just can't settle. She'll lay down, then as soon as someone is up and moving, she is too. She follows us around, and just doesn't seem to sleep very soundly! She's always so curious! My mom has been tending to give her some treats on her bed and say "time for bed" after she goes out to go potty around 9/10 and she will get on her bed and my mom will put her to bed. Typically, she's asleep within the half an hour, but again, I'm paranoid and worry that this is making her sad or resent us? Sometimes my mom will put her in there during the day after a particularly heavy play session if she seems restless. Is this OK? Well, this is all I can think of for now. I SO appreciate everyone who made it even a little bit through this. I love this forum and the amazing support and experiences from people. I know someone out there must have some sort of advice for me. Thank you to everyone who reads and responds ahead of time I appreciate it. I just want some peace of mind. I just want to give my dog the best life and feel happy and confident in the dog I'm raising. I hate having doubts and questioning myself, and her behavior.
Honestly, it sounds like you’re doing a wonderful job of raising Cassie. And it sounds like she’s a great dog who is behaving in a totally normal way in all the situations you describe. You are obviously feeling incredibly anxious. But from all you’ve said I see no cause for worry in any aspect of your dog’s behaviour. Let me go through your points. This might be brief because, really, there is nothing going wrong in my opinion. 1. Totally normal and just her personality. My first Labrador was the same. Quiet, bit of a sad, serious face, always watching us. But also ready with a wag and very happy to see people. Just like Cassie. In fact, my ideal Labrador personality! I would love it if my next dog was just like this. 2. You’ve done the right things here. Tossing food and swapping things for food are exactly the right things to do. I do it all the time. It’s normal for a young dog to try out a bit of a growl when a valued toy is taken without a fair swap. Giving her a treat in exchange for the object was the right thing to do. Sometimes my dog Obi growls if we have to do something he doesn’t like - in his case this would be dealing with a sore spot. A growl is a polite “please don’t do that!”. We get out the treats and no more growls. Getting out the treats isn’t teaching him to growl - it’s teaching him that what we’re doing is not so unpleasant after all and that he doesn’t have to worry. In your case, keep doing the swap for a treat. If you need to get something she has and you have no treat or toy to swap with then just leave her with it. You can also be proactive and train a ‘give’ so it’s on cue. Look at the post from Snowbunny in this thread: https://thelabradorforum.com/threads/teaching-drop-give-and-leave-it.21345/ 3. Well, some dogs just like chewing stuff up.... Anything you don’t want chewed - just keep it out of her reach. 4. Sounds normal and she’s probably (actually definitely!) not growling. Some dogs just make a throaty grumble as a play type thing. My dog dogs it. Cassie’s greetings are 100% like my dog’s are and I am completely comfortable with this and I think you should be too 5. Dog eyes are not entirely brown. When they look in a direction (up, down, to the side), you are going to see the white part. It’s impossible not to. What you see is simply a consequence of her directing her gaze. It’s not ‘showing the whites of her eyes’ which is something that’s accompanied by a lot of fearful body language. That’s not what you’re seeing. 6. Everything here sounds fine to me too. Labradors want to follow their people around. But it’s also fine and good to teach them to cope with being alone in their own quiet space. I also just want to comment on the dog bite situation with your other dog. I’d say that that bite happened due to a combination of (1) kid relentlessly pestering dog to the point where the dog had reached the end of its tolerance (“loving on” from a kid = intolerable and incredibly rude pestering from the dog’s perspective). 2) dog being in a lot of pain from the bone cancer, an agonising disease to have. 3) surprise/fright when the kid suddenly appeared. I would have bitten too, under the same combination of circumstances... But you are never going to put Cassie in that situation. You are not going to allow kids to pester her, bother her or “love on” her without respite. You’re going to keep her safe and there will be nothing for either of you to worry about. Well, that did turn out to be kinda long after all! The bottom line is that everything sounds fine to me. You have a lovely dog. You’re doing a great job. My only worry is how much you are worrying about all this. Is there someone you know who you can talk to about that?
I could hug you...a million times. Thank you. Thank you a million times. Anxiety is a dreadful thing. I've tried a LOT to keep it under control, but that lingering fear (despite trying my very best to do everything in my power to be the best dog mom I can be) just won't go away. It comes and goes, but when I'm having a bad day and think about it...like today, I just needed some reassurance, which you so graciously, kindly and clearly provided. Thank you for helping to ease a lot of my worries, I feel like a HUGE weight has been lifted off my shoulders. My brain always plays tricks on me, and there is SO MUCH information out there that can get all jumbled and confusing. I will most certainly be checking out the thread from snowbunny! Since I've been unable to get out and play with her, I'm constantly working on leave it and playing with her from a chair, and trying to find chair-friendly training I can do since I have a knee brace and crutches! That all sounds like some stuff I can teach her even with a bum knee! I think Cassie will be excited to learn a new skill, too. My mom really tries her hardest to follow all I've learned about positive reinforcement (we were learning about it all together!), but sometimes she just gets caught up and in the moment she will grab Cassie's collar and panics a bit about what she could be chewing (which is understandable...Cassie ate a poisoned rat when she was like 12 weeks old...so she has a track record!). I think this was one of those cases. I have to remind myself that my mom making a mistake in that here and there (grabbing her collar to stop her from going somewhere, yelling no!, etc) isn't going to make Cassie this scary, evil dog who attacks people and that she's trying her best too (while taking care of me). As far as chewing, I just didn't know if there was something more at work with the plastic chewing--leave it to me to overthink EVERYTHING Thank you for mentioning about my old dog. I agree, I was talking to a friend about my concern due to my last dog, and she expressed something similar with the being in pain/bone cancer, and the fact that he was caught off guard. It just really scared me. A lot. That, and it makes me sad because we didn't even know! Here is a picture of him and I. We were sent round and round by 3 vets before ever finding out that he had cancer. It wasn't until nearly 2 months of pain meds that we finally got an answer at a vet at the beach. We took him to the beach (his favorite place) one last time before he was put down. He was so good at never showing us his pain, poor thing As I mentioned, anxiety is awful. I've expressed my concerns to my Mom, but she was sort of at a loss for what advice to give me and just tells me it will be fine. I haven't bothered to talk to anyone else because well, frankly, I feel crazy. I often think about the fact that nobody else obsesses over their dog this way or lives with this sort of fear to the degree I do. So, I guess I don't have anyone I can really talk it through, hence why I came here. I didn't know if just...addressing anxiety with a counselor would be helpful, or finding a dog trainer to kind of talk to..I don't know, I was at a loss, but I do suppose it's something I should look into more, because I probably AM crazy Thank you again! It means the world to me that you took the time to respond.
Do you just mean the white edges of the eye? We see those on our boy all the time. He also does a very strange thing when sleeping, in that his eyes are slightly open and you can only see the white part. It makes him look like Bran from Game of Thrones. I think it's all perfectly normal.
Yep...That's exactly what I meant! I've just read SO MANY things about that being a symptom of stress in dogs, but it's confusing because I also see it all the time! I wish all the articles out there could get the info right and be explicit! Then again, most people don't think twice! That IS very strange..how funny! And OMG, I've never seen Games of Throne, but Bran is creepy! Haha! Thank you for taking the time to response and reassure me that it's all good & normal, I appreciate it!
As I'm currently trying to work through my own fears about how I will handle a puppy (I don't have one yet but have been looking), your post was really interesting. I can see me thinking/feeling all the things you've mentioned! My impression is that you care very much and as @Oberon says, are doing a great job. You had a scary experience with your older dog and you seem very detail-oriented, so that has combined to make you worry about Cassie. As someone new to Labs, I found this particularly interesting: When I first joined the forum, it was strange to me that so many people posted such "serious face" dog photos. From meeting Labs, I know they are generally very waggy, friendly dogs...so why all the long faces? My theory is that Labs with the longer narrower heads (like your girl) just tend not to open their mouths as much to breathe/pant. Dogs with shorter, rounder muzzles and generally larger blockier heads tend to spend more time with their mouths open (like my dog Brogan's photo in my avatar). As humans, we think happiness equals smiling and interpret the open mouth as a doggie smile. Could it be that your other dogs were just more open-mouthed smiley and the change to Cassie's different style of resting face is bothering you on some basic level? I know the whole 'smiley/not smiley' theory sounds a bit nuts, but I know to me not getting those cues that I'm used to getting is really something that I've had a hard time adjusting to with Labs and one reason I tend to favour the show lines over the field lines...those blockier heads seem to smile more! On the other hand, I've gotten the chance to meet some of the more serious-faced Labs on the forum such as @Boogie 's Tatze (and the even more serious-faced guide dog puppy Mollie) and @Beanwood 's Bramble and these are happy, happy dogs. It just comes out more through their waggy bodies than through smiley snouts! As to your dog who has passed now, it sounds like the bite incident was completely out of character, it's almost entirely certain that it was a reaction to pain, as the others have already said. So sad for the child who was bitten and also for you, but ultimately not something that you need to project on to Cassie, though it's completely normal that you would. Try to remember him as he was his whole life, not that one incident. Thanks for sharing that lovely photo of you and him on the beach. What a handsome guy and you can tell by that big smooch that he adored you! Um, I think you'll find you have lots of company here on the Forum with fellow dog-obsessors (obsessives?). Some of us even obsess over dogs we don't even have yet. Or that might just be only me.
Having anxious feelings all the time sure does take an enormous toll. It’s really quite common for people to feel anxiety, even anxiety that seems to last all day, every day. It’s not something that you should have to feel though. It is something you can get help with, so it can play much less of a part in your life and in your way of thinking. I would really recommend that you seek out a counsellor or a psychologist who is experienced in helping people to learn to get control of anxiety and who has worked with people in your age group. Your regular doctor or GP might be a good place to start to get a recommendation. In the meantime, this website also has heaps of information on it that you might find interesting or useful: https://www.beyondblue.org.au/
No you are not - you are just over anxious at the moment. Hopefully @Oberon’s response will help reduce that and one of your new strategies should be to read what you have written so well and then read her reply - it will calm you down when your anxieties are getting out of hand. I can identify a lot with what you have said. Cassie looks a lot like my puppy Red who is 12 months old. She has a very serious look on her face and I used to think a bit like you do. However, she wags her tail a lot and does such huge body wags I know she is content.
I have nothing to add. Oberon has given you some good advice. I just wanted to welcome you to the forum. Cassie is young yet and you sound like you are doing a great job.
I too think it sounds like you're doing a super job with Cassie, she's so young yet and she sounds great. I don't have anything to add to the superb reply you have had from Oberon. Take heart! My black Lab is called Cassie too.
Nothing you've mentioned sounds too unusual for a Lab. All our previous Labs have exhibited some or all of those behaviours. You mention Cassie's sad face. Holly always has a serious expression on her face but she's a normal, gentle, sensible Lab. if you have a look at her photos she always looks serious, though she did let her guard down yesterday and let @Naya take a rare picture of her zoomie face. When we get visitors she always runs for a toy and sometimes makes little growly noises to encourage us to play. She follows us around the house because Labs just love being around their people in case they do something interesting. Gypsy (our Lab X) did a wonderful white-eyed wild dog expression as part of her manic play, usually just before zoomies! Cassie sounds normal, and I don't think you have anything to worry about.
Gosh! What a wonderful dog owner you are . Lovely photo there of your old dog looks like he was an amazing character, you look so happy in that photo. Yes, as @Emily_BabbelHund mentioned, I have a super serious lab, Bramble. She is now two, and if anything, has gotten more serious as she has matured. It's just the way she is. We get a lot of "whale" eye, but it is always in context. Right now, she is sleeping, along with Benson and Casper who are blockheaded and typically joyful characters. Just before she dropped off, her head, as usual, orientated towards me, with a soulful gaze. The cat (Remy Martin) wandered in and took up residence on the three seater sofa on the other side of the room. All of the sofa. Bramble became quite conflicted, she couldn't quite drag her head away from me, so commenced HUGE whale eye, as she turned her gaze on Remy. Boy! if looks could kill! After a couple of minutes of everyone ignoring her (including Remy...), she is now asleep. This is Bramble... I adore her completely, despite the fact she is far more complex than the other two...
I agree totally with the others, it sounds like you are doing a great job. I just wanted to sympathise with you regarding the anxiety, I lost my mum a few years ago which is what (I think) triggered some anxiety attacks. It was very frightening to feel so useless and such a failure and so totally out of control of your own thoughts. These are false thoughts though, you must realise that you are so much better than these thoughts make you feel. You are being a very caring and responsible puppy mum, and everyone here is willing to listen to your fears and share your delights with your new friend. When we got Maisy my hubby kept remarking how sad she looked all the time, I can see that when she is resting with her head down and looking up she does look sad but it is totally normal, also when she is sleeping she also does that "creepy like Bran" open eye thing plus lots of twitching, very weird but nothing to worry about. I also want to say what a gorgeous boy your previous dog was, I confess to shedding a little tear when I saw his picture on the beach. How lovely that you shared your life with him and made him so happy. You have a good track record so no reason you can't do the same with Cassie.
What a grand owner you are ! Re the serious face , my Sam ( in the avatar ) who I lost young seven weeks ago , always looked solemn , to the point that I did used to worry that he was maybe unhappy . However, get him out retrieving, or into the presence of children and his face lit up like a Christmas tress ! x
I just want to add my agreement too - it sounds as if you're doing really well with Cassie. Some dogs (like people!) have rather sad expressions when they're not thinking of anything in particular (probably food, more food, walks, more walks and play, more play, in the case of labs!). Try to relax and enjoy your lovely Cassie.
I just wanted to say hi, and welcome! And as others have said, it sounds like you’re doing a great job with Cassie. ❤️ I think labs are very contemplative, which may give them more of a “sad” appearance at times. But, I love the fact that they’re able to transform their faces so much! As far as the impolite greeting, Ariel does the same thing regardless of who comes through the door. Lol. Runs to find a toy, shoves it at the visitor (which I consider good sharing habits! Lol), and commences a full-out wiggle bum, sometimes with a low grunting noise. Always a party with her! And yes, the watching....and watching. BUT, she’s also learning at the same time - learning my habits and routines, learning my expectations, learning what does what, etc. She even lays in the hall between our two exterior doors as she knows there’s no other way out of the house, so we can’t sneak out without her knowing! Ariel often takes herself for a nap/bed. When she was a pup, and was getting over excited/overtired, I would crate her for a little quiet time and she would fall asleep almost instantly. Just like having a toddler! I hope you stick around with us....it’s fun sharing other people’s journeys. Keep up the great work! ❤️
Hi @lara_b, the others have addressed your doggie concerns, but I just want to add to what Oberon said - please get help for your anxiety from your gp. A little bit of medication and perhaps talking with a licensed counsellor will probably work wonders. You don't have to suffer through this alone. I suffered from crippling anxiety as a teen and didn't know that I could get help for it. And unfortunately my family were useless and believed you could "pray it away" (hot tip, you can't).
Thank you. All of our other dogs have always been such overly friendly looking in appearance, and well, as mentioned...my stress got to me! I think your theory is absolutely correct! I hadn't even thought about it. I think you're right, it's just different and for no real reason it's sort of bothering me and causing me to think about other things. Thanks for putting things into perspective for me, I really appreciate it! You're absolutely right. I try hard not to put what his life was on her, because that's not fair, it's more just the fear lingering more than anything since I was right there to witness it. I miss him dearly, despite what he did, and I loved him so much. Thank you so very much for responding, I appreciate it so much! Hehe, smiley snouts and waggy bodies...so cute!
Thank you. I'm sending you a million virtual hugs. I took a few days off from responding because when I'm on this forum I focus on the posts about aggressive dogs and it adds to my anxiety. The past few days have been wonderful with my Cassie. I feel much less stress and have been trying to just enjoy her for how she is! We've been playing games and doing training as my leg allows, and I've genuinely just enjoyed having her for the first time in quite a while. Thank you for your thorough response and for caring. I'm looking into these resources and getting help, because I don't want to feel this way and let it control my thinking in such a negative way.
