Can anyone advise me on the best harness to stop pulling my arms & back are really hurting from being pulled.
Honestly, the no pull harness didn’t work for me and my pup. I have her in obedience class and the instructors said any harness hits pressure points and promotes pulling (like sled dogs are in harnesses)..they told us to go for the training collars (cloth and chain) or the metal linked collar that has rounded prongs that stick out (acts as mothers bite). They allow the dog to realize if he/she slows down that the tightness lessens. Mine still pulls somewhat with this so I bring treats on walks. When she walks next to me she gets a treat and a good girl. When she pulls, I stop and bring her back. I also say “AH” when she pulls, she has learned to loosen up and come back. I guess I marked the behavior because she slows down to be next to me as we walk and looks at me until she gets a treat. She has regressed a little on this but I think it’s because she’s starting to reach her teenhood and you know, hormones. Good luck.
Britt, we have a forum policy of only promoting modern positive reinforcement dog training methods, so we don’t endorse the use of aversive equipment like prong collars. Rewarding the walking position you want, using treats, is definitely the way to go Glad you are having success with that.
For the umpteenth time, harnesses do not promote pulling. They simply make it less damaging if your dog pulls. Persistent or strong pulling/lunging when wearing a flat collar can cause permanent damage to the sensitive throat area on a dog. What can happen with choke/slip or prong collars is therefore unthinkable. Trying to justify it by saying it’s like the “mother’s bite” is horrific. It’s nothing like that at all. It’s sticking spikes in your dog’s throat for them doing something completely natural like wanting to walk at the pace they find comfortable. I would find yourself another trainer; yours is clearly stuck in the dark ages. Harnesses spread the pressure across the chest of the dog, protecting their throats. No, it is not punishing your dog for pulling so won’t stop the pulling. But it’s morally wrong to punish your dog for doing something you don’t like just because it’s easier than communicating to him to do what you do like. In fact, it’s not even easier... a dog is going to understand faster when you tell him “Here’s what I want, here’s what wonderful things happen when you do it” rather than “Nope, I don’t want that. Nope, I don’t want that either. Or that. Nope. Wrong again.” which conveys no information about what it is you’re actually after. Mixing the two methods will likely work, but it doesn’t justify the use of the punishing devices. They’re not necessary or morally acceptable in a progressive modern society. The sled dog argument is fallacious. The harnesses are a completely different design with a far lower, farther back attachment point which increases the dog’s traction when they pull. Just look them up online and you’ll see how that works. Walking harnesses don’t have this effect; because the load point is higher and farther forwards, when the dog pulls, they lose traction at the front. Front-fastening harnesses even more so; when the dog pulls, they are turned towards the handler so their forward momentum is reduced. I’m currently using a Perfect Fit harness with my one-year-old because she is incredibly strong and excitable in the snow, and the slippery roads mean I can easily get pulled off my feet. She walks beautifully most of the time, which I trained just with a flat collar, mostly off lead and entirely with positive reinforcement. In the conditions we have here, and coming from rural Spain to the hugely arousing environment we have with holiday season here in Andorra, the front fastener on the PF harness means I can easily hold her, even in the ice, even if she loses her mind - which she will, on occasion, because she’s a young Labrador, not a robot.
Along those lines I thought I’d add a word about the idea that dogs naturally push against or resist pressure. This is sometimes referred to as the ‘opposition reflex’. People at times argue against harnesses based on the idea that the backward pressure ‘activates the opposite reflex’, encouraging the dog to push against the pressure from the harness, aka pulling. Actually, dogs have no natural tendency to push back against pressure. The opposition reflex doesn’t exist. Harnesses (or any other equipment) will not activate a reflex to resist pressure and pull. Dogs pull against collars and harnesses simply because doing so allows them to get to where they want to go, and because that haven’t learned otherwise.
I understand everyone has their differing opinions, and based off the information that is out there and as much reading I’ve done and shows I’ve watched..I can assure you everyone has a different opinion and method that works for them. One professional opinion tells you do X and the next opinion is against X and all for Y, then there is another article that is against X and Y and all for Z. The harness didn’t work for me, but a collar that tightens a little does and has improved her walking. If I feel she is getting a little to excited, I redirect her focus and calm her down.
There is a difference between "opinion" and evidence collated from credible sources. The evidence currently points against the use of choke chains, and even a collar and lead (jerking, aversive use to restrain )and clearly suggests that these methods can cause a multitude of pathologies to your dog. Using aversive methods is not a quick fix either, yes initially even a minor "tightening" around the neck will be enough to reduce pulling, however, this will diminish as the behaviour has not been addressed, so the pulling increases to the point in some cases to the point of the dog practically choking itself. Training a good loose lead can take literally hours and hours of training.
I personally believe that loose lead training is something that will never really stop. Everytime I walk Stanley we do loose lead training to and from the off lead part off his walk. As soon as I et a bit slack with it I find he starts pulling again and it makes it even harder so I just try to be very consistent. This is something that's very important to me because Stanley is strong and I'm not so it's much easier if he walks nicely next to me. But I do feel it's one of those things you get out what you put in, and I don't feel it will be something that I can ever tick off. But then, if it was such a problem I should have gotten a smaller dog. I wouldn't punish Stanley for it!
it's taken nearly 2 years to train Coco (from age 16 months) for loose lead, there is no quick fix - we had a fabulous loose lead walk this morning, still having to stop occasionally because he's rushed on ahead and reached the end of his lead. All trained in a harness. In the past, he's pulled me over and he's wrenched my shoulders, but his neck and internal structures have never been jeopodised during our walks. You never know when a dog will lunge, even a well trained dog. Coco lunged through a hedge this morning, there was nothing there - he just went. On a flat collar or worse, a tightening collar I dread to think what might have happened. Thank heavens for his harness.
This is the issue, even the professionals disagree. I don’t knock the harness, I know it works for some. I have also met people it just didn’t work for. Dogs, like people are different. What works for one might not work for another. I have 2 harnesses, both she has just outgrown. When she is out of the awkward size (medium is to big still and and small is to small) I’ll get her another. However, don’t knock the collars that tighten. There is a reason they exist and are popular. They simply work for some. Yes, some dogs might experience issues with their throats, however...if it was as dangerous as people are making it, it would be banned. When properly used they are safe. The point is to not abuse them and intentionally choke the dog or allow it to be tight to long or to tight. Like I said, I have both. I have found that my pup responds a little better to a collar that tightens than she does to either harness I have for her. As she gets bigger (and she will as mom and dad are both American labs and over 80 pounds each of lean muscle..probably the biggest labs that are not overweight that I’ve ever seen), I might only use the harness or a combo because she will be incredibly strong and I’ll need more leverage. My goal is to have her trained on loose lead before she reaches 80 pounds though, so I’m using the collar in my training....it works for me and she’s been to the vet a couple times and has been deemed perfectly healthy (and the vet knows and sees the collar). All I can say is try what works and don’t let he dog pull to hard. If you stop the pulling and watch for the physical signs of a lunge (knowing your dog), you’ll prevent anything dangerous. This is also where the training with treats, keybwords and praises comes into play
But for the original post. If you use a harness just be careful which one you get. Not all harnesses are equal as you know. Some harnesses allow the dog to pull backwards and get loose and some are like puzzles trying to get on the dog which leads to putting them on wrong. If they are on wrong (to tight, to loose) it defeats the purpose. I would take your pup into the petstore and try on different harnesses to see which one works for you, you’ll also find employees there that can help you (some pet stores have their trainers present) fit your puppy into the right one so you don’t end up buying 20 different harnesses until you find the right one.
Aversive methods that cause discomfort or pain can definitely change behaviour, as dogs are very motivated to avoid discomfort and pain. But these methods are unethical. Why would anyone use them when there are effective, kind methods available? They are dangerous and cruel and so are banned in many places. Where I live, they have been banned (by animal welfare legislation) for many years.
As a professional I know of no reputable trainer who will countenance the use of a prong or check/choke collar, and you can include eCollars, bark collars in that as well. In fact depending upon your professional accreditation it is clearly stated in the Code of Practice that such collars are prohibited from use. Being available to buy does not make it ethical or right to use. Loose lead walking can be trained with some practice and effort without resorting to pain inflicting, aversive methods.
Choke and prong collars are very controversial here - my City implemented a ban on both choke and prong collars last year (that I believe is currently being re-assessed), and you can be fined if using them on your dog in public. Despite being banned or not, any positive methods of training do not use force, pain or fear which is what the members here believe in. Every single training class I have taken do not allow choke or prong collars or any other aversive methods.
We have done puppy class. Over the last couple of days when we have our walk when he pulls I just stop and say heal. It's a working progress lol but seems to be working. I personally wouldn't use a collar that digs into my dogs neck I'm not a fan of them. He does have a harness and seems to be getting there. X
We went for a nobby brand in the end the man in the shop highly recommended it. He still pulls but he is learning & I'm sure he will get there. Thank you
@Vicci What you could try is rewarding after every one or two steps to encourage staying in position and then reward after 3 steps; 5 steps, 7 steps, 10 steps and so on. Yry not to walj too slow - a common problem when we're training loose lead/heel walking. You'll be surprised how quickly your pup decides that walking close to you is the best place to be without pulling and better than keep saying 'heel'. Don't rush it as loose lead walking is very hard for our dogs.
I can't emphasise this enough. Very few people naturally walk at a pace that is a natural gait for a Labrador. Think about when you walk with someone with a much longer stride than you. You know, where you have to jog a few paces here or there to catch up. Awkward, isn't it? Or when you're walking with someone who goes really slowly. It makes your joints ache after a while because it's so unnatural. It's the same for our dogs; we're asking them to do something that's pretty uncomfortable, puts a lot of pressure on their joints and just doesn't come naturally. From their point of view; why shouldn't they be able to walk at a pace that suits them? And walking in a straight line? What's that about? The smells are criss-crossing in every direction and we want them to walk in a straight line? Madness! Nope, it's super hard for them, so every pace at heel should be celebrated. With my puppy, I worked really hard on this from the get-go. I wanted to make being next to me the best thing in the world. So, rather than just working on the rather dry "treating for being at heel", I made it the most fun game in the world. Yes, rewarding for being at heel, but mostly off-lead, we'd walk, run, crash to a stop, go backwards, change direction on a sixpence.... just mixing it up all the time, laughing and celebrating when she managed it, poking fun at her (which she also loves - it's attention, after all) when she didn't ... ("Looooooooooooserrrrrr" ). Of course, making it mostly achievable, but when you're having fun even when you're caught out, it really doesn't matter The game itself is rewarding. It makes being at heel a game not a chore. She's now over a year old and she still loves walking at heel. She looks up at me, her face full of fun, even when we're walking from A to B in the street. The other thing that was a real lightbulb moment for me in the early days of Luna (or maybe even before I got her, I can't exactly recall) was the realisation that we treat the two "big" behaviours - walking at heel and recall - as separate entities, which can both be real struggles. But they're the same thing, in so many ways. If your dog loves being with you, why wouldn't she choose to walk with you? Why wouldn't she come when you call? Yes, yes, yes, we still have to proof against distractions just like we do with everything, but if we are a huge source of fun for our dogs, rather than someone they have to put up being attached to until they're let off to do their own thing, then we have far less of a battle. Walks for my lot are interspersed with loads of little games that last only a few minutes each and are often very useful in their own right (such as the walking at heel game), but they keep the dogs engaged with me, looking to me all the time in case I choose to start a new game. Yes, they get plenty of sniffing and "being dogs" time, but they're also constantly checking in with me to see if there's something fun going to happen. It might be something as simple as a few leg weaves, or a sit/stay. Maybe a bit of basic doggy parkour (feet up on trees and walls, jumping onto a bench/rock/stump etc), calling them to middle, marking thrown treats until they're released to take them... so many little games that you can do a couple of reps of, take no equipment and very little of your brain power (once you know them) yet keep the dogs engaged and wanting to interact. So, that's my advice. Cut your dog some slack because it's really hard. And make it fun to be with you so your dog will want to do it. For me, treats alone don't give you the strongest behaviour you can get (this from experience of doing that with my first two dogs); work on strong engagement and you'll get the focus that gives you the heel work. Good luck!
What a helpful post this is. It's reminded me to look again at what I do with Inky. It's easy to get hung up on one aspect of walking with your dog - for me it's Inky eating dog poo, that you forget the fun and games you can have. Some of our walk is along the prom and one of inky's favourite games is for me to throw a piece of kibble as far as I can then send him for it, he races away and then straight back to me, it's very satisfying for both of us!
