We took Max to the beach today where he met two young children between the age of 5 and 7. The first was a young girl whom Max greeted with a little skepticism but did allow her to pet him. She greeted him slowly and quietly but he was a little stiff. They did have a fairly rambunctious dog themselves. The second was a young boy who was with his parents walking a lovely calm golden retriever puppy but dove in a little quicker in trying to say hi to Max. He didn't quite get around to petting Max as Max let out a fairly loud bark so we in turn backed off. The parents seemed appreciative for us doing so. My question is for those of you who have dogs that are unsure of children to say the least, how do you go about desensitizing something of this nature? Will he grow out of it? Max was fostered with two younger children as a pup and did fine with them.. When we brought him home as a puppy of 4 months, he sort of lunged and barked at our 3 year old nephew. So he therefore hasn't had. A whole lot of interaction with children since. I am not sure of how to deal with this, as I do plan on having a baby of my own in the not so distant future and we do have young nephews as well.
I have dogs that are scared of children and I just stop children petting them. In fact, I told a child off today because he went straight in to pat Luna on the head - who loved it because she loves everyone. If it had been either of the other two, though, he would have got at least a bark for that. If you continue to let children pet him when he’s unsure of them, you could end up making him worse. If he barks and it doesn’t keep the child back (or, worse, you tell him off for barking so he learns not to do that) then he will feel he has no choice but to escalate his behaviour. I’m not saying you can’t work on it; I’ve made big strides with mine, but you have to be on constant alert to your dog’s body language which might vary from day to day and child to child. Learn when he’s saying he’s uncomfortable. That’s your cue to get him out of Dodge. But when he’s in a situation he is comfortable with a child around (probably at a distance), associate that with great things such as brilliant food rewards. With children, especially considering you’re wanting your own, I wouldn’t take any risks and would look at hiring a behaviourist to help you through this.
I am not a dog expert but it sounds as though Max is a little unsure of his ground. I have a young lab pup who is trying to explore and bark at everything at the moment. She does this with people sometimes and seems a little unsure of how to be with them I have found that if I encourage her to make friends and then praise her for being friendly with them she is ok.
This was the first indicator that Max wasn't happy aboyt the child approaching and touching which ked to him escalating and barking with the second . I never allow anyone to pet my dog when we're out walking unless I gave a passing acquaintance with them. Dogs can be socialised with children but it should always be under adult supervision. If they don't meet children often though behaviour can regress. Do you have any children in the family around 6 or 7 that visit. If so you can start introducing children to Max by having them just toss treats towards him. No approaching, no touching and allow the interaction at Max's pace. Make sure that when he always them to stroke him that all approaches are appropriate - children often hug or pat in a way a dog doesn't like.
There are some good videos on www.stopthe77.com which help kids and parents understand appropriate and inappropriate ways of handling dogs. So many people think that dogs should put up with bring manhandled by children but that’s just not fair and is asking for trouble.
Would hanging out (at a distance) from schools during the after school exodus and rewarding heavily for just being in proximity to kids be a good starting point?
I wouldn't do this as a first step. It's a little unethical to use other people's children as training aids without their permission and there is a risk with the added number of children combined with noise to make it an unpleasant experience ( . Preference would be for one or two quiet, calm children to just sit and toss treats towards the dog with no other interaction.
I felt as though I was fairly experienced with dogs prior to having max; growing up with them my whole life and having one of my own from puppyhood. Max taught me this is not the case, although I have learned a tremendous amount with him. We were incredible lucky with the behavior and temperament of our previous black lab This issue just has me stuck because I don't want to subject other people's children to him if I am not sure how he will react myself. Baby steps I suppose. Thank you everyone everyone for your input. Jojo, I think I will try what you suggested and start small with our nephews on the opposite side of a baby gate offering him treats to help him learn there is no reason to be fearful and work upwards. I may call our local animal shelter where Max took some obedience classes as they have animal behaviorist s and trainers available. I love him so much and he is such an incredibly smart dog. I would be so happy to see him overcome this issue. I just fear that I will never feel 100 percent with him around kids, and I know you never can even with the most behaved of dogs. I just feel that I need an experienced person to help guide me through this. We have overcome so many behavior issues on our own with Max already and I don't doubt that he won't improve upon this. We used to be a bit skeptical with his interactions with other dogs as well but he has made tremendous leaps and bounds.
it makes it that much more difficult when parents encourage their children to walk up and pet unfamiliar dogs. Not to place all the blame on the parents as we should have asked them not to do so but still. We entered the beach at a small narrow pathway so it was hard to avoid. And the boy whom max barked at continue to follow us after we said maybe not a good idea to meet. The parents just stood there. Again though, our fault for not being more adamant about it.
Maybe we have just been lucky, but all of our Labs have been pretty good with kids, babies, and elderly folks. I don't think any of our Labs would ever bite anyone, except perhaps in play. When they don't like something (like putting drops in Tilly's ears) they try to avoid it, but they don't make any attempt to bite or even growl. Our 6 month old Granddaughter was here last week and while Cooper was sitting next to my wife and granddaughter, she reached over and pulled Coopers ears. Her reward was a dog kiss . I understand that all dogs can bite, and I had a Malamute that definitely would if pushed, but he gave lots of warning which you ignored at your peril.
You have to be quite rude sometimes. Because my two older dogs are fearful, I really feel I have to advocate for them and that sometimes mean getting in people's faces which doesn't really come naturally to me. Use your body language, people respond really well to this. Stand in front of him, put your hand out like a policeman and say NO! It's far more effective than just asking "please don't touch my dog". They will stop! You can then, if you choose, explain the situation and ask them to help with some counter-conditioning but being abrupt in the first instance is your best course of action.
I find that most parents around here, ask if their child can pet our dogs. We always say yes, since our Labs are fine with kids. When I come across a dog in a store, like Home Depot, I will often approach the dog with the back of my fist, since they seem to find that less threatening. I always ask before letting our dogs interact with other dogs. Of course most people who take their dogs into stores in the states have friendly sociable dogs, otherwise they would not take them shopping.
Approaching to take a treat is too far advanced. Start from a point with the children quietly tossing a few treats towards the pup. No calling, reaching out to touch or offering a treat as we want no pressure. You can have pup behind a baby gate or just on a loose lead. Next step would be for the children to approach one step closer and then toss a few treats and very gradually work towards offering a treat from a flat open hand (prevents accidental teeth) still with no physical touching - that's only when pup is happy to take a treat. Treats should be really scrumptious to help the process. Don't forget the starting point for interaction is where pup is comfortable - body relaxed, no stiffness etc. Slow progress will win
Thank you everyone for your replies! I planned first to simply have the kids toss treats over the gate and maybe just simply watch the two kids interact with each other while I feed him yummy treats.
My girl can be unsure of children running and screaming while playing, this came about after a few experiences of children running in her face and patting her over enthusiastically. She did go through a faze of being scared of all children. As @snowbunny says you have to be rude sometimes. The other thing I do is tell them she is extremely muddy and their child’s clothes will get ruined or that she will lick their child’s face and pinch their bobble hat. That also works. I had a case the other day when I was getting her out the car and a women with a Dalmatian on an extendable lead and two kids. She let her dog come right to the car door and the kids ran at her. Poor Mabel was wedged between my legs and the car. I said if you come close she will bark and she did. They said well we want to stroke her. I explained she had just had hydrotherapy so no it wasn’t possible. (She’s always a bit skitty afterwards). The women had walked off into the distance shouting listen to the lady, her kids did finally follow her!! The one thing I do is carry extremely high value treats in a separate bag and when kids want to interact with her I’ll get them to throw treats and take it from there. I do find it odd that some parents think it’s their child’s god given right to pat any dog that’s around.
Completely agree! When Stanley was a puppy he was quite mouthy and I was frightened if he nipped someone it could be taken as being aggressive. One day when I was walking him 2 young girls came up to him and started grabbing at him, and riling him up. I said to them "please don't stroke him, he can be a bit bites and I'd hate for him to hurt you". The little rotters started chanting bitey dog and still trying to stroke him so I said more firmly "seriously, he could hurt you so behave". Their mother then appeared and said to me that if he was aggressive I should have him put to sleep. I was so shocked that I told her to eff right off and my dog didn't even bite, I just thought her kids were rotten and didn't want them near my dog. I left her with this sort of face
I definitely plan on being more adamant about asking people not to let their children pet Max. I know if we work on desensitizing him to children he will improve, he's just so darn smart. I just taught him how to stand up tall on his two hind legs for over five seconds within a 20 minute timeframe. He is so fearless with so many things and I am sure he will learn to fear children less. As I've said, it's just young children (and for good reason, sometimes they scare me too!) and knowing Im not alone is so reassuring!
