Maxx is a chronic couch/floor/table surfer. We can't leave him unsupervised in the house and I'm starting to worry that we are doing something terribly wrong. When I let him out of his designated area I follow him around saying 'leave it' and 'drop it' and taking the things out of his mouth. We also do training outside and he is very good when I have treats in my hand but otherwise his ears are painted on. This morning he grabbed a hand-towel and ran under the dining room table. When I reached in to try and take it from him, he really snapped at me and I only just got my hand out of the way quickly enough. I must say, though, that he was in a very bad mood this morning for some reason. He is ok now after a big play at the dog park. He is great outside, we often sit quietly together or he ambles around and brings me toys. It is just inside that he can't seem to help himself. More on offer to tempt him I suppose. It doesn't help that we are renovating so there are tools, sandpaper, paintbrushes etc everywhere. We have lounge time at night where he sits with us on the floor and I guess because he is tired he will sit there quietly chewing his blanket or a toy for a while or we play fetch...but then he gets bored and goes surfing again. Sometimes I put his lead on and put my foot on it from the couch so he can't go far and often he will settle that way...briefly. Otherwise at night he is in his pen which is large and right next to us in the lounge or during the day he is blocked behind gates in the back yard, covered porch and, if we can leave the back door open, to the laundry and part of the kitchen (where he likes to snooze because the tiles are cool). I feel we should be doing more. But what exactly? Or do I just need to be patient?
He sounds like my Aspen! I think you are doing the right things, he is probably just tempted, like you said. I know a lot of people have said they reduce that temptation for their puppies just by putting away anything they could possibly get into. I know that is often easier said than done. Aspen is 10 months and still isn't left out when we leave the house. The only area he is really trusted in alone is our living room, which has a gate. He will try to get into anything we leave out, just the other day he ate one of my textbooks. It also seems to be harder for them to keep their noses out of things when there's something new going on, such as the construction you mentioned. Aspen will get into anything we try to do around the house when it comes to renovations. I would just keep rewarding Maxx for whatever behavior you like. With Aspen, as he has gotten older he has learned what he should and shouldn't do with reminders. Now, if I am getting ready in the morning, he will just lay downstairs in the kitchen and wait for me to be done. I really think it is part training, but mostly just slooooowly growing out of being a puppy. So like you said, just being patient. Aspen still couch/table/floor surfs, but if there isn't anything to get, there's not reward, so there's no point in doing it...so we just try to keep everything cleaned up and put away. But maybe you can try a cue for not doing those things? I'm not super familiar with doing something like that but maybe someone else is, if such a thing exists. One day Maxx will just settle and it will be amazing. There used to be a time when we couldn't even sit down to watch one episode of a show because Aspen would be all over. Now, he just settles. Maxx will get there
The standard advice here when you bring a puppy home is "clean surfaces" - everything is put out of reach, including tea towels. Items on your kitchen bench are pushed right back. Many dogs aren't going to be reliable around remotes/tea towels/paper/shoes/knick knacks for a looooong time. As photo evidence on this forum proves, many dogs still will destroy what they can well into adulthood! I think you might be expecting too much of Maxx, and that just sets him up to fail. Remove all temptations, and then slowly start testing the waters in a couple of months. He will learn to chill out and stop looking for mischief eventually, but 5 months is generally too young for that. So yep, patience!
Thanks Sophie....that gives me confidence that we aren't doing it all wrong . We just adore him but honestly.....sometimes....patience is tested!
I don’t have experience of younger puppies as we adopted the Pig at 9 months, but all this sounds very familiar. Nope, we couldn’t sit down to watch a whole tv show or even long enough to drink a whole cup of tea without leaping up multiple times to prevent disasters/ extract things from her mouth. I was a nervous wreck having to have eyes in the back of my head. They do grow out of it! But in the meantime, being scrupulously tidy is key (I know hard when renovating). We could not have any clutter or removable objects on any surface downstairs basically, until she was about 1.5 years, and she was crated till then too when we were out. Kitchen surfaces were kept completely empty so it became less rewarding for her jumping up there. Although I must say, the only thing that truly fixed the counter surfing was the one slightly punitive thing I have ever done with the Pig - when she jumped up, immediately taking her out into the hallway, attaching her to a lead out there and leaving her for 20 seconds (shutting the door) before bringing her back in. No shouting or stern words, just a calm demonstration of ‘if you do this, then it’s boring for you for a while’. She did not have any sort of separation anxiety so this wasn’t horrible for her (I wouldn’t have done it in that case) but she found it frustrating enough to be removed form food preparation action for that short time that it stopped her counter surfing in two days. I know a lot of people on here understandably want to train entirely without even this mild level of aversiveness and there are positive ways like training a ‘go to mat and stay there for occasional treats’ when you are in the kitchen but we struggled with that because we couldn’t prevent her from going in the kitchen without us.
The thing with treats is not to have them in your hand or visible. Have them in a pocket or treat pouch and/or on various shelves round the house. Only give the treat after the action. Immediately they follow the cue (sit, down, upsit, stand etc) mark the action - a click or a ‘good’ or a ‘yes’. Then treat asap after the mark. Then you don’t get a ‘show me the money’ pup. It’s confusing because when teaching an action we use a treat lure which means they do see the treat. But, as soon as they know the action, the treat should go away and be given after the action. Too many training videos don’t make this clear. I didn’t know this when Tatze was a pup and she still has a bit of ‘show me the money’ going on.
They will grow out of it to some extent, but if all you're doing is taking things from him, he will learn that you approaching means he loses his precious <whatever> and so a resource guarder is born. If you're constantly saying "leave it", you are nagging your dog and that will damage your relationship. Here is a link to a post describing the method I use for training the dog to bring me stuff, rather than having to nag or remove their finds from them all the time. https://thelabradorforum.com/threads/teaching-drop-give-and-leave-it.21345/#post-326288 Other than that, it's management all the way. Proactively train the give, making it very rewarding as described and don't leave stuff in reach. By the time they've grown out of picking up everything (which varies from dog to dog, and some never do), you will have a dog who is happy and confident to give you anything, and who won't be guarding their "prizes".
Yes, if they never get access to remotes etc then a habit doesn’t build up. I keep absolutely everything out of their way. By the time they are about 10 months old their habits are formed and I can then leave anything out and they don’t touch it. (But don’t ask about Tatze and leads/collars/dog walking equipment )
I get into the habit of leaving our 17 week old choccie' leash on so that when he gets at piece of stick from the wood pile, I can get to him under the table. But he is so used to my putting my fingers in his mouth and down his throat to take something out that I've never been snapped at. Usually I just offer to trade the item for a treat, and then take away the item. He'll give up nearly anything for a kosher hot dog piece. But then compared to all the behaviors I read about here, our choccie is a COMPLETE ANGEL.
You said your dog is a complete angel compared to everyone elses but firstly you say you have to tie your very young pup up?then you choke it? I sorry I don't see how your way is better it certainly is not kind of humane.
My dog isn't a complete angel, just a pretty normal Labrador BUT I've never had to leave her lead on so I could reach her under a table and force my fingers into her mouth and throat to remove illicit objects. It us also rather foolish and/or dangerous to try and remove items fircibky from the mouth as digs can swallow the object instead to prevent the removal. It is also a really good way to encourage resource guarding with little effort.
Yes. From a very young age it’s a good idea to teach the pup to ‘give’ the object, however small. Taking it encourages swallowing, which is the last thing you want in a Lab.
Physically taking objects from a puppy is definitely not recommended - training a give is far better for everyone concerned. You run the risk of creating guarding issues if you take things away from your puppy or, as others have said, encourage the puppy swallow it to keep you from taking it. It can also be an obviously stressful situation for the puppy. Using the method I linked to above (https://thelabradorforum.com/threads/teaching-drop-give-and-leave-it.21345/#post-326288) will train your puppy to give you whatever they have in their mouth. Yesterday, my youngster delivered a deer leg to my hand. If I had tried to grab it from her, she'd have played keep-away, running the risk of getting it caught down her throat and choking her (or worse). Instead, because of the training, I was able to call her to me and give her "dead" cue, which put it right in my hand. We then played the "give" game several more times (as detailed in my post) to build up the reinforcement history for the behaviour with a very high value item. We need to be aware that every interaction we have with our dogs builds up a history. It's either reinforcing or punishing. Taking something forcefully from your dog is undeniably punishing, so your dog will start to work out ways in which he can avoid that happening in the future. Trading is a great way to start, but you have to be aware that this is just bribery and it will fail at some point (your "nearly anything"). Nothing I could have offered to trade would have beaten a scavenged, fresh deer leg. That's why it's so important to build up a reinforcement history, so your dog is happy to give you something regardless of what he's going to get in return. Here's a great article about reinforcement histories that @Beanwood shared the other day. It's about horses, but equally true about dogs: https://spellboundhorses.com/2017/07/25/the-super-power-of-reinforcement-histories/ I don't think it's helpful at all to compare our dogs to others. There will always be someone with different struggles and different strengths. Let's just concentrate on the dogs we have in front of us, and try not to pass judgement on the others we see or read about.
My girl hasnt got the best ‘leave’ or ‘drop’ but I would never put my hand in her mouth to get it. If she won’t drop it, I find something, anything and pretend it’s the best thing ever.....she soon comes running to see what I have got and drops whatever it was that she had. Most things she will now drop (using the methods Fiona describes above) but very occasionally it’s too high value to her. I really must remember to take out jackpot treats as I keep forgetting!
Amen! They really are all very, very different. Things which work perfectly for one just don’t for the next. We tear different patches of hair out with each pup lol Keir is my most ‘perfect’ pup yet - but his blanket chewing skills are currently driving me maaaaad .
Mine have all been so different. despite all of us being far from perfect we seem to have a lot of fun together and a very happy time.
Snowbunny posted - That article is excellent - it puts simply and clearly why and how we use food as a reinforcer. I have bookmarked it for future use.
