Thanks MF, it sounds like a good idea, don't know if it's feasible as, at least as far as I am aware, they'll be deworming Gaston every month at least untill his 6 months old (?) and then less frequently (once a year?) from then on, but I do need to mention this to the vet. I did not mention it the first time, as I blew it off as maybe a coincidence (him taking the tablet and behaving oddly) so actually the change in tab did not arise from anything I said to the vet, but it happening again cannot be another coincidence..It's awful and something I would like to avoid in future, being the case.
@CMartin we had a similar issue with Ella. We kept telling the vet and we kept trying different products. The vet tried products with a different active ingredient and we ended up finding one that suits her. Our preference is to prevent rather than treat.
Thanks @Emily, yes different active ingredient.. I will see this with the vet. And I agree, prevent rather than treat. Thank you.
I might normally agree, but I believe intestinal worming tablets don’t prevent your dog getting worms; they kill worms that the dog has contracted since the last dose. So in this case, testing for worms might be a good plan if the dog can’t tolerate the medication.
I dont see this as yet as him being affirmatively or undoubtedly intolerant to the medication (or all such medication), maybe if he'd had an allergic reaction then it would be different. I think I will try with the vet different active ingredients and see how that goes. I prefer him being dewormed than not. It is good to know though there is a plan B - testing for worms. Thanks everyone.
All dogs have worms; so do humans. If they have too many of the bad ones and their immune system can’t defend against them, then the dog will get sick. Latest research in humans leans towards wanting to keep good worms (helminths) in the gut - just like having good bacteria. So, it’s also bad to deworm when unnecessary as it is to not deworm if necessary. I’d opt for testing if there are too many of the bad worms, because your dog is not coping well with the worm meds - which is a poison after all. I’ll have some time tomorrow to find scholarly articles about helminths.
Thanks for the info @snowbunny, that's interesting. Is it a case of testing if/when you think there's something going on or do you do a regular test, in place of the medication?
Eewwww I'm definitely interested in reading the article when you get a chance to link it. In theory, I like the idea of testing instead of medicating but I'm very nervous of missing the signs of an infestation and letting poor Ella get sick. Not to mention the fact that we have a two year old at home that doesn't quite understand he's not a dog and shouldn't carry her toys in his mouth I don't think we'd be recommended to stop the heartworm prevention though.
Hi @MF Thanks, I would appreciate that. I know there is presently a new current or trend (not sure trend is a good word for this) in what concerns dogs : Health, nutrition, training. More holistic, natural and positive methods. I am trying to understand all of it, so that I can make informed decisions and options, vs. that what I know from the past. I will not however be able to go with any flow, if it does not feel right to me. I don't want to risk anything, I had a dog die on me unexpectedly, I know these things happen, but it is still raw. I find the "New Age" thoughts interesting, and one of the reasons that bring me to this forum daily is to see how others are putting this all in practice. I am still a bit muddled, which is natural, as I do see conflicting advice or information to all the novelty. Gaston is followed by a vet. Previously Leão had a different vet, I liked her, but this one seems better. Nevertheless, Gastons' future trainer is of the opinion that, apart from holistic vets, the vets in Portugal are outdated, even the new generation ones, as they have been taught by the old school..and for example excessive vaccination came up in the conversation. On one hand, what we have is what is traditionally recommended and what has been done in the last 4 or 5 decades (commercial kibble, traditional training (ex. Caesar Miller), vaccinations, deworming, etc..) and what we are now encountered with (raw, barf, yum diets, holistic health care for dogs and positive reinforcement training and humanization of the dog). Between one and the other, I find they may be extremes to each other. How was this all triggered, and so sudden? Deworming I see in the same light : I am for prevention. Unless prevention is not what I am told or led to believe by the health authorities. Or if they are outdated indeed. Sorry for the long comment PS. I believe in science, more than I believe in trends, so I'd love the scholar articles. Thanks.
As said, I am with @Emily on the prevention, and along these lines of the AKC article on deworming http://www.akc.org/expert-advice/he...asites-and-how-to-protect-your-dog-from-them/
I can't say for sure, as I de-worm regularly (I guess that's a hint right there in the word - we're de-worming, not preventing worms...). I think if I were to go the testing route, I would want to do it with the same regularity that I de-worm, so quarterly.
I try to worm quarterly with Drontal (or another with the same active ingredient). I buy a year's worth at a time & each time I administer I write the next due date on the calendar. Coco is a cat poo snaffler so I guess it puts him at higher risk of worms, so I'm keen to do it every 3 months as recommended by vet. I can't say I've ever noticed any difference in him after the meds.
In Gastons case, the vet gives me the tablet and then tells me to deworm him on day "x". The vet has told us he will be dewormed every month until he's 6 months, so 3 more times left till then. Not looking forward to that Still, I think it is better to deworm him and go through the nightmare than risk it and not deworm him. I would really love getting the dewormer right though - one with no change in behaviour. He is such a sweet doggy normally Don't know how often the vet will tell me to deworm after his 6th month though. Still, I am going to see if we can find a better fit, dewormer sans the bad times would be lovely. Hopefully, not too much to hope for.
De-worming will not prevent anyone's dog getting worms, but will kill any worms it may have since the last medication.
Here are some links to info about humans and intestinal worms that I said I’d post. Note - it’s about humans, not dogs. Researcher: https://surgery.duke.edu/faculty/william-parker-phd - scroll to bottom of page for his publications https://theconversation.com/they-mi...intestinal worms can actually be good for you http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(12)62126-6/abstract
Thanks MF. I havent read them yet, but will. I was a bit pressed for time today. On the other hand, for those of us worried that dewormers dont prevent but only serve to kill existing parasites, that seems good enough as, and I quote : "The way worming treatments work is to kill existing worms - there is no residual effect so nothing will prevent your dog picking up worms in the first place, however if the worms are killed regularly they will not have a chance to cause any damage." ( source : www.medicanimal.com/Signs-and-symptoms-of-worm-infestation/a/ART111523)
Interesting articles, thanks @MF. Seems like there are good (such as fighting back inflammation) and bad parasites, and some that are indifferent to humans. Interesting too to know that there are parasites that actually are part of our system. And that there are patients that buy and eat parasites (worms) for their particular health reasons. In the case of dogs, IMO puppies should be dewormed at the regular recommended intervals, biweekly then monthly till they're 6 months old at least. I think the risk for not deworming is higher than the benefit. Older dogs I am not so sure of. I rarely dewormed my previous adult lab to think of it, maybe as @Stacia, once a year if I remembered. Don't know if that is good or bad. Will definitely have this discussion with Gastons' vet too. Come to think of it, it is all very interesting..the article that mentions humans getting more sick (such as allergies) due to our super cleanliness and much greater hygiene now is also food for thought.
My own opinion is that worms are always parasites, not commensals, and aren't good for humans at all. In civilised sanitised countries worms are not normal. I am aware we have lots of members from areas where worms may be "endemic" and more common, but the bottom line is, they shouldn't be there. Other bugs and bacteria can live happily in our systems as "commensals" and don't cause us harm. Skin always has Staph. aureous for instance, causes no problem unless e.g a cut or breach in the skin for some reason. Having said that, I'm just a once or twice a year wormer now Lilly is older. One of my bug-bears (excuse the pun) I am an anti- "Dettox everything", and bin your anti-bacterial washing up liquid kind of person (the latter as it ruins the skin of my hands!!)
