Understanding the differences between a field lab and an English lab

I'm a new member here trying to learn a little more about Labs before buying one.

I learned today there are field labs and English labs that sell for more (according to one breeder). From what I was told Field labs are taller, have pointier heads, less bone, less coat and have a higher energy level than the English labs. Is a Field Lab the same as a Pointer Lab?

What we really want to do is avoid another scent driven dog like our late field beagle that would track and bay all the time. With that said is an English lab our only choice or can a field lab be a good off-leash dog with proper training?

 

I've had both types of Lab over the years. My last dog was an English Lab (or show Lab as they're sometimes called in the UK). She was a nicely formed, solid and rather placid dog with a great temperament. I've currently got a field Lab bitch who is very different in appearance and personality. She's a lighter build, a quicker learner and better adapted as an outdoors dog.

She's quiet natured but is ready for an all-day walk in just about any conditions. I've had no problems with barking, and she's quite content to walk with me off lead in just about any terrain. The only times she's run off (and such events are rare) is when she smells something disgusting that she needs to eat, or a fox poo that demands a roll. She comes straight back afterwards.

Training her to this moderate level was surprisingly easy. Like all our labs, she's very biddable and eager to please. I'm sure that we could train her to a much higher level as a working dog but OH and I got her as a pet and walking companion.

I've never heard the term 'pointer lab' before, but I've never trained a dog to the gun. I'm sure that other forum members with greater experience will have thoughts on this.

 

I have (and had) Field Labs and found both to be very responsive and not go off hunting, they have a high drive to retrieve and with this you can make such a close bond with your dog.

 

Some Labs seem to have a pointing gene, but I don't think it is unique to Field Dogs. People who hunt upland birds often look for Labs from parents with the Pointing Gene. I don't whether it normally follows the family line or not.

Our first Lab was a rescue, which fit the Field dog description better. Our second Lab, Tilly, looks more like a Bench dog, though her Dad was a Field Trial Champion, and looked it. Her mom was a Master Hunter, but looked like a bench dog. Tilly is the least birdy Lab I've ever seen, though she is a ball retriever and loves water. She was very energetic as a young dog. She was easy to train and was well behaved. Cooper is definitely a Field dog. Very tall, and generally big (24" and 80#). She was hell on wheels as a young pup, but has settled down to be even better behaved than Tilly, with less training. While she is thinner than Tilly she has big bones, and her legs and feet do not look thin like a German Shorthair Pointer. I generally prefer the look and disposition of the Field dogs, but they are all Labs and usually have a pretty high energy level, and good temperament. They were all bred to be gun dogs and companions, and most of them love water and get along with other dogs.

I don't know that Bench dogs sell for more than Field dogs in the States. Most of the breeders we have looked at, talk more about the Field accomplishments of their dogs (either Field Trial or Hunting Titles), and don't show them at all. We have only looked for dogs in the Pacific Northwest, so it may be a local thing.

 

I have two field/working lines dogs and one show lines dog. They are all of UK origin. I believe the field Labs ("American") in the US tend to be far taller than we have on this side of the pond.

The field Labs do tend to be lighter-boned, have finer features and a longer leg-to-body ratio. Show Labs ("English") are heavier boned with blockier heads and have a more 50:50 leg-to-body ratio which can make them look heavier still. Of course, many show Labs are also simply fat! Personally, I am not a fan of the aesthetics of the American show Labs; they are often very "over-done", meaning they look like caricatures of themselves, and certainly do not look fit for purpose, which is a very important part of the breed standard!

Temperament-wise, I think it's a far better guarantee that a dog from successful show lines will be a better "fit" for the average pet home, as to have success in the show ring, the puppy's ancestors will have had to be confident dogs. My two field-lines dogs have anxiety problems which make them far more difficult to live with. That is NOT to say that all field dogs will have this, but the very successful field dogs can be rather highly strung, as it's that "fizz" that makes them biddable and fast. Dealing with anxiety isn't something I'd wish on anyone, so, whatever direction you choose to go down, make sure you meet the parents and assess their base temperaments. Don't simply be impressed by their level of training, which can make a dog appear confident; my Shadow oozes confidence when working, yet is a complete mess in many normal social situations.

As for field Labs having higher energy, try telling that to my show dog
Like I said, my field dogs are certainly anxious and in one of them, that leads to him struggling to be still. In the other one, it has the opposite effect - she shuts down easily. These are litter mates, so you can't really say how it will affect them! Both of them will happily snooze during the day when we're not doing anything, but during training, Shadow is go-go-go and Willow needs more careful handling to keep her engaged and not stress her.
My show dog is rather bonkers, in the most lovely way. She is a lot "busier" than the other two, often looking for mischief - but she is a youngster, too, at 17 months. I chose her from lines where the breeder works her show dogs, so I knew she had a good chance of being biddable, and she is. She really enjoys training and is a great little retriever. She is also incredibly strong.

As for the "pointer Lab", it's not a term we hear in the UK, but there is some talk that the reason field Labs look the way they do is because hound genes have been introduced over the years. So it is certainly possible that pointer genes have come along for the ride, too, and have then been selectively bred for. I would be wary about what other traits joined the party alongside and whether they were something I was after in a pet dog

 

@snowbunny, your field Labs may be anxious because of their parents, not because they are Field Labs. I bought both my Labs from the same breeder who has many of her Labs still living with them at the kennels (in the house!). Both my Labs had a degree of anxiety, especially the one that is now dead and it was difficult to deal with, but he got it from his Father, my present Lab is the nephew and he has a more reduced level of anxiety. The rest of the Labs that lived there had no evidence of anxiety, they had a different sire.

I do not have the writing skills @snowbunny has, so forgive the brevity and lack of scientific genetic explanation!

 

Absolutely! Sorry, I meant to be clearer on that. Yes, I believe their anxiety has a very strong genetic component. Their mother is a timid dog (scared of storms, furniture being moved - and mice!); the sire, not at all. Both are working dogs.

The point I was trying (obviously not very well) to make is:
Successful show dogs HAVE to be confident, and since this is heritable that's as much of a guarantee as you're going to get that puppies will also be confident.
Successful field dogs HAVE to be well trained, and sometimes that can cover up any natural anxiety while they are being "demoed" to prospective puppy owners. There is far less of a guarantee that a field dog will be naturally confident outside of the training environment. I absolutely don't mean to say that they are all nervy, but simply that you may not be able to tell unless you're very experienced.

Many top level sports dogs across the different dog sports are naturally nervy because that's what gives them the edge. It doesn't mean they all are, or even that most of them are, but they are certainly there. When people breed for accomplishments rather than for temperament, you might get a less than ideal temperament when you're putting the resultant dogs into a different (pet) environment. What might make a brilliant competition dog doesn't always make the best pet.

So, if you're looking for what will be primarily a pet dog (whether or not you want to dabble in some dog sports), ensuring a solid temperament is far more important than any pieces of paper that the ancestors may have achieved. Finding out what temperament the parents have is the bit that can be challenging and requires honesty on the part of the breeder. If you met Willow and Shadow in their home environment, they'd both come across as being chilled out, friendly dogs who just want to sit on your lap and wash your ears. Sadly, that's not the whole story, and if I were to breed them (no, not going to happen), prospective owners wouldn't have a clue unless I was completely honest about it.

 

I would also add that a pup bred from high performing 'sport/working' parents may only be suitable for experienced owners who intend to 'work' the pup and know what to expect.

 

Without wishing to conflict with the excellent advice already given, and speaking, um writing, based on what I have heard: Some say that working lines can have a better temperament because they are bred from cooperative stock. Whilst show lines are bred more for their looks.

Whatever Lab you get, I don't doubt it won't tear off like a Beagle at every opportunity. We use those for mountain hare hunting, once they get a sniff of something they are off like a rocket.

 

It's not conflicting, really, it's saying "make sure you check the parentage"
It also depends what you mean by "better". Field Labs are often thought to be more trainable ("cooperative") because they're bred for their working ability. If you're breeding for looks alone, then you're just at fault of not breeding for temperament as anyone else. But the fact remains that, in order to be able to be a successful show dog, a dog needs to be able to cope with the hugely manic environment of the show - it's complete chaos, very noisy, dogs and people passing in very close proximity, complete strangers feeling the dogs, children screaming and running past, often grabbing a tail as they go - it's madness. If the dog gets stressed by that, it won't be successful however it otherwise looks - no-one is going to give awards to a dog that is shy of the judge, who is reactive and on edge.

But, you're right, some people are breeding show dogs solely for looks and that doesn't necessarily translate to a dog that you can train easily. Which is why, when I was researching my latest pup, I went to a breeder who not only has successful show dogs, but who also works them most days of the season. This demonstrates that she is creating dogs who are fit for function - and have the brains and drive for their job - as well as looking beautiful. I couldn't be happier with the pup I've got - compared to the other two, she is SO easy, despite being a regular Labrador hooligan, because I don't have to worry about her being worried by anything. She's far more "Labrador" than they ever were, but I find that easy to deal with and, to be honest, quite delightful, even when she's doing zoomies with the head of a wild boar. Her joie de vivre is infectious. Dealing with reactivity and anxiety is terribly hard.

I dream that one day there might be a return to a breed where there is no divide between the two sides - breeders like Luna's are doing their bit and I would encourage anyone to look for similar

 

We looked into this when getting our first Lab and heard the same GENERALITIES. We learned field (aka American) could be higher strung and friends who still hunted and had one found them way too much energy for the family man who might only get out to hunt a couple of days a year. Here physical appearance can vary quite widely, some very big, some petite. I do find it perplexing still that the dogs still bred for and used for waterfowl hunting tend more often to lack the thick double coat they need for cold water. Most of our friends who do hunt, regularly hunt, do prefer the Show (aka Bench, aka English) Labs for the, generally, easier going temperament.

INdividual differences in energy and temperment abound in both types and a good breeder with the best in mind for her/his dogs will pick the lower energy pup from a field litter for you, if that's best for you. The field lines here are more often found being used in trials and competitions where the high energy is useful, and some don't actually hunt in real life at all.

My boy is bench bred from a show breeder. He is moderate in appearance, thought by some to be small at 67 pounds. He is quite a high energy dog and I was grilled by the breeder as to whether our family would be able to handle this dog. Our neighbour who has put multiple field trial titles on his little bitch, who is the same age as Oban, was impressed with my boy's drive and took us on as clients for field work.

Check your prospective breeders most carefully.

 

@snowbunny you say it so well and I did get your point re show dogs

 

↑ This!!!

 

Agree. Our (responsible breeder) didn't give us the pup I had picked out for being "fully of energy", inquisitive and outgoing; that went to a more experienced owner.

Instead we got our lovely boy, which at a recent breeder-ran training session, the breeder referred to as, "the rebel"

"Eager to please", yes. But only if it is pleasing himself

 

Thank you so much for the detailed explanations. Although I’ve got to admit my head is swimming now with all this information. If I take anything away from these posts it’s to really look at their parents’ traits and disposition.

 

Absolutely agree @Hitch, having a good, laid-back temperament in a dog will make life so much easier, and outings more enjoyable.I am currently researching stud dogs, and temperament (as well as health tests..) are the top of my list.

Try stalking facebook pages of the breeders, you can pick up quite a lot of information that way, especially if the breeder keeps in contact with previous pups. Don't be afraid to interrogate the breeder on the dogs on behaviours/personality. Drop a bunch of keys on your visit...do the dogs act overly nervous? Also, note how the puppies will be raised. Early exposure to different sounds, textures have been proven to help resilience in later life. This is far easier to achieve in a home environment as opposed to kenneling pups, or if they already have a programme of early socialisation in place.

Posh pedigrees on paper, field trial winners may sound impressive but mean nothing if they can't pass another dog comfortably or they completely freak out at cyclists or children for example.

 

Absolutely. Good health and temperament are essential.

 

I really would also look very carefully at the situation that the dogs are raised in. I have always had my dogs from people who bred for themselves and kept their dogs indoors. The best dog in terms of confidence was one that was raised in the kitchen, by the aga, with all the hubbub and mayhem of a farmhouse.

I’ve been told that a lot of the problems that I’m having with one of my dogs who has a very good field trial pedigree, is because it was not socialised enough by the breeder. Field labs tend to be kept in kennels by the breeders and so miss out on early experiences which would help their confidence.

 

I think I sort of lucked out, my lab Daisy is half working breed, half something else. She seems to be of very high energy, but doesn't seem to have any anxiety. The only thing she is mildly afraid of are umbrellas and walking through the door to the vets.

 

In the US at least, I think Dogs bred for Field Trials are higher energy than those bred for Hunting. (Field Trial Titles vs Hunting Titles) Both will probably be Field Dogs as opposed to Bench Dogs. None of our dogs have had anxiety issues to the point that they caused us any problems with normal training or socialization. They have all gotten along well with other dogs and people. Ginger did not like GSDs after she was bitten by one, as she has gotten older, Tilly can bark pretty insistently when she wants something, and Cooper does not like being brushed. but those are about the extent of our dogs phobias.

Tilly's dad was a Field Trial Champion, but was a friendly and easy to get along with as any dog I've seen. The breeder used to have a picture on their website of Max swimming in with 2 ducks in his mouth and one more under his chin. He was pretty driven

I haven't seen Field dogs that did not have double coats. Cooper and Ginger had pretty harsh guard hair while Tilly's guard coat is softer, but all of them had double coats. Coopers coat is the most waterproof of any of our dogs, and she has the biggest otter tail. While she is very tall and lanky, she is not fine boned at all.