I am also not in favour of adding salmon oil to the food I feed my dog, although seemingly very popular. Just an other example of my beliefs.
Which still doesn't disagree with anything I'm saying. Is there a wall around here? I kinda feel like banging my head on it. Meat Meal (for example, lamb meal) : in this example, all lamb tissues, exclusive of blood, hair, hoof, horn, hide trimmings, manure, stomach and rumen contents that are cooked (rendered). After cooking, the dried solids are added as "meal" to pet food. All lamb tissues except those bits... so that leaves, what exactly? Muscle, bone, internal organs, cartilage, ligaments, tendons.... oh, all the things we already feed if we choose a raw diet. So the problem is, what, exactly? Look, I'm not saying that kibble is brilliant. I'm not saying that meal of any description is brilliant. I'm not saying rendering is brilliant. I believe feeding your animal fresh is the only way to know exactly what they're getting - as long as you don't want to think too hard about what drugs have been pumped into the animals and vegetables to get them to the supermarket. But if you believe that there is anything except chicken in chicken meal then you're wrong, plain and simple.
I don't think we're in the agree, sorry @snowbunny. The last article I posted sums up my thinking I guess and especially this part right at the beginning and I quote : " What is really in pet food? The pictures presented on cans and bags of pet food conjure up images of a chef cooking divine meals of wholesome cuts of meat and vegetables for our beloved pets. Although this is a lovely idea, it is rarely the case. When animals are slaughtered for food production, the lean muscle is cut off for human consumption. The remaining carcass (bones, organs, blood, beaks, etc.) is what goes into pet food, commonly known as "by-products," "meal," "by-product meal," or the like. Read on if you are not faint of heart. In addition to the carcasses described above, other "leftovers" from the human food industry (restaurant grease, out-of-date supermarket meat, etc) and "4D" livestock animals (dead, dying, diseased, disabled) may also be found in pet food through a process called rendering. Rendering is defined as "an industrial process of extraction by melting that converts waste animal tissue into usable materials". In other words, rendering involves placing livestock carcasses and possibly "leftovers" into huge vats, grinding it up and cooking it for several hours. Rendering separates fat, removes water, and kills bacteria, viruses, parasites and other infectious organisms. The fat that is separated becomes "animal fat" that goes into pet food (for example, chicken fat, beef fat, etc). The remaining dried protein solids become "meal" or meat "by-product meal" for addition to pet food. "(...)
I do believe there are other things except chicken (as one believes chicken fit for consumption to be) in chicken meal.
Again, where's that wall? Anyone wanna help me out? I don't think I can spell it out any clearer. It's not about what I believe, it's honestly not. It's nothing to do with beliefs. It's about definitions. Where in what you have posted does it disagree with what I have said? What you have copied there applies as much to the "chicken" or "turkey" or "beef" or "salmon" or whatever else that you seem happy with as it does to the meal. The only difference is that in meal, it's dried. That is the one and only difference. Wet vs dry. And then it's dried anyway if it's made into kibble. Yes, it's gross. But do you really think that when a kibble says "chicken" that it's premium chicken breast? Of course it's not. It's all off-cuts and waste products. Whether it's meal or not.
Anyway, you clearly don't believe what is written in black and white, so I'm not going to waste my energy anymore, you'll be pleased to hear. But hopefully there's enough information in here that someone else reading won't take your first "meal should be avoided at all cost" and take it as gospel.
I do indeed. So when the organic kibble says "chicken", I expect exactly premium chicken breast. Even better when it says chicken apt for human consumption. Call me naive, but yes that's the ingredient I look for in a kibble.
Meal is good. It is meat without moisture which provides a much higher protein content to your dogs food. Meat is high in moisture and when rendered actually becomes significantly less of a protein source which leaves way for binders and wheat based fillers making “meat” worse for your dog. When of course dealing with kibble. Meal=good and meat=bad.
You fought the good fight, Fiona, you really did. I found your explanations very helpful though, so they weren't wasted!
I really applaud you for the consistent explanations and definitions but unfortunately it is very difficult to change someones beliefs, even when supported by fact Hope the head isn't hurting too much from the wall banging
This is just marketing and it's up to us as consumers and pet parents to read what is actually in the food and decide whether it's something we wish to buy, not just rely upon a picture on a packet. But what's the definition of 'premium'? Is that different to say 'Finest'? They are just words that conjure up an expectation for us.
I started questioning the "facts" with the unexpected death of Leão, my first lovely lab. My belief is that, and without being paranoid as for sure there is a reasonable cutoff for sanity sake, those "facts" are many times and to say the least little white lies which lead to, for example, as we speak, there being lawsuits (a lawsuit is different to a voluntary recall) of the top notch brands Orijen and Acana. That is why I prefer beliefs of mine above those "sturdy" "facts". I will continue to avoid meals and meats as they come across as doubtful definitions for what should be crystal clear to me.
To add some more food for thought: anyone feeding premade minced raw food who cares what their dog eats should also question the labeling. On a fb page I belong to for raw feeders, someone pointed out that the ingredient list for a raw beef minced product was identical to the raw chicken minced product. In fact, both products contained various animals, and the one labeled Chicken Thighs had the first ingredient listed as chicken heads. My point being that unless you’ve visited the manufacturing plant, you will have a hard time finding out the full truth. Especially with animal food, which is notoriously filled with non-nutritious fillers, and sometimes dangerous stuff (think of the various recalls). Sourcing food in its original whole state (even if you end up cooking it and processing it yourself) is the easiest way to ensure you know what your dog is ingesting. And feeding a balanced diet is not rocket science if you follow a few basic guidelines.
In the UK, we are covered by legislation which says animal products that go into pet food must be passed as fit for human consumption - or so I understand. https://www.food.gov.uk/business-industry/farmingfood/animalfeed/animalfeedlegislation/pet-food
Visiting the manufacturing plant of my chosen kibble has crossed my mind, tbh. It is not that farfetched, it is in the same country where I live. And agree with source in the original state, a chicken undoubtedly will be a chicken and look like one too. (There will be more to this for vegans to mention one, but I'll keep it on topic)
You still don’t know what’s in the food: “The labelling requirements for pet food are less onerous than those for feed for farmed livestock. For livestock, the ingredients must be declared individually in descending order by weight, but pet food manufacturers have the option to declare them by category -- e.g. 'meat and animal derivatives', 'oils and fats', 'cereals', 'vegetable protein extracts'. Declaration by categories allows for fluctuations in the supply of the raw materials used...” While the slaughtered animal must be fit for human consumption, the bits that go into pet food are not normally eaten by humans - not to say it is not nutritious (like offal), but muscle meat is an important part of a dog’s diet, and it’s most likely not included in kibble due to cost: “The material of animal origin used by the pet food industry comprises those parts of animals which are either deemed surplus to human consumption or are not normally consumed by people in the UK, and derived from animals inspected and passed as fit for human consumption prior to slaughter. Animal material of this nature, which is not intended for human consumption, is classified as 'animal by-products' ...” I’m curious whether this legislation covers imported kibble?
@CMartin no-one is arguing that there aren't sometimes problems with pet food manufacturers and 'dangerous' ingredients getting into the product (most often where cheap product is use) but here is just a glimpse of the recalls this year on human related product. https://www.food.gov.uk/enforcement/alerts and you are fully entitled to believe what you wish but that does not alter the fact that chicken meal, Turkey meal etc., is a good nutritious protein for inclusion in a dog food
