I love this forum, they've given me so much support. So, we are going on holiday, to a house in the countryside in France. Bonnie is coming with us, she is 7 months old. At home we have a gate across the dining room so we can eat in relative peace (2 adults 2 kids). She is totally food driven, will steal anything she can reach in the kitchen, no matter how much we tell her "off". But my main worry on holiday is the house is OPEN PLAN! The table is in the big open kitchen, no baby gates. We've not attempted to eat with her in the same room as I expect a fiasco, and the kids in a frenzy cos she's nicked their dinner! Any tips for the family eating around a table, on holiday with no baby gates! I'm concerned every meal is going to be hell. I'm taking my Labrador books with me, and intend to use the time to train, train, train. Inside the house and in the garden, but not stealing our dinner is a must!! All advice welcome, apart from "don't take the dog!" Cos she's booked in. Ha ha
Is a foldable baby pen a possibility? Or will she jump out? Harley is so good about not jumping out of hers, even though she could easily. We use it if we entertain and want to prevent the guests from having poor manners and feeding our dog table food or encourage her to beg.
I think Bonnie would just bark at us from a pen, if she didn't jump out. do you think if we ignored her barking after a while she would settle down? Thank you
We have trained Harley to "go to" her mat/bed and then she recievedtreats there when she was younger. Now she choses to be in her bed. So we put her bed in the pen. As I said, it is for the guests, not her. Does Bonnie like kongs filled with her supper perhaps?
You could use it as a training opportunity. You could put a mat next to your chair, get her to sit on it and reward her for sitting nicely, use her whole meal allowance if needs be. When we took Harley to a restaurant a few months ago I was really concerned that she would create mayhem. I put her blanket next to my seat, she was on her collar and lead and I fed her for being calm and sitting there. She was amazing. It might take you a few days, but really worth trying something as it might also help when you return home.
When are you going on holiday? I wouldn't want to spoil a lovely holiday by having a dog bark constantly through all meals, so if you've got time I'd crack it now. We never trained Xena to sit in a mat/bed during meals, we just ignored her, and that worked, but given that Bonnie's 7 months now and has a history of this behavior you'll probably need a more formal approach.
Finn must stay in his place during meals. If he is spotted anywhere near the dining table he is sent back to his own place. We learned this right from the start when we got him at nearly 8 weeks. He doesn’t know any better. Sometimes he ‘accidentally’ forget it so we all sent him back... I would say to create a place for him in the house, and learn him to stay on his own place
Definitely 'take the dog'! I agree with the others that this is a great training opportunity. When are you going? Start today training her to go to her mat and stay there during meals. If it's something you can fit in with everything you're taking with you on holiday, you could also use a portable crate. Your goal should be to ditch the current gate system you have at home before going on holiday. She's likely to regress a little when you arrive at your holiday home (new location = relearning) but if she's got it down solid at home, you have the best chance of succeeding on holiday. Also you mention that you tell her 'off' when she wants to take food. Things like "off" or "no" or "stop" pretty much become 'blah blah blah' white noise to dogs - they don't know what action they are supposed to take. Teaching a specific behaviour that inherently redirects from the behaviour you want stopped is much easier. So 'go to your mat' is going to stop food stealing because you can't nick food and sit on your mat at the same time. If you've not already tried it, I'd also give a go at twisting the idea of 'off' on its head. By that I mean first teach her to 'take it', then teach 'don't touch'. Just like teaching 'quiet' is easier if you first teach 'speak', it's easier to first teach the action and then progress to the inaction. I've yet to have a dog that didn't learn pretty quickly that they were indeed going to get to share my dinner (I'm not suggesting you do this, just an example) but that they had to sit quietly and calmly before the food was going to come their way. The take it/don't touch game is also great learning of impulse control for a six month old pup and super useful for all sorts of things in the future. Good luck and let us know how you get on!
Hi, We’ve got a 7 month old as well and 2 young kids…. so food stealing is an issue in this house too Like others above - I like him to sit in his bed in the same room as us while we eat. I started this with him maybe 2 months or so ago and this is how I did it... I’d pop him in his bed when we sat down to eat and then I’d regularly give him a piece of his kibble during our meal - probably every 10 - 20 - 30 seconds or so at first. If he got out of his bed, I just put him back in and continued the treating as long as he was in his bed. He’d get quite a lot of kibble during the meal but it was just out of his daily allowance so I didn’t mind. Quite quickly I slowed down the amount of treats - so he was waiting longer in his bed between each treat. And then I just treated for when he was lying down and chilled in his bed. These days, he jumps into his bed as soon as I start to get the food on the table and he probably only gets maybe 10 pieces of kibble during the whole meal. (If needed for any reason i.e. he’s a bit hyped up - I just increase the frequency again). He does still jump out of his bed if food gets dropped - that's work in progress still! But if things are particularly manic or stressy for any reason - then I just put him in his pen in the other room with a kong for the meal - rather than have a bad meal. I found once I'd started doing this training - it was much easier than I thought it would be Good luck and enjoy your holiday!
Thank you, that is really great information, I'm so pleased I posted this, you're all really helpful!
So, I thought I'd let you know how we got on. I printed this whole thread off and took it with me. We sat, as a family around the dinner table. Bonnie sat next to me on a mat. I'd give her bits of kibble every so often to keep her there, and quiet, sometimes I would give her a filled kong or a chew to occupy her a bit longer, as every mouthful I took of my own dinner, I was dipping into my treat bag for her (all felt wrong to me, thought I was going to get mixed up ha ha!!). Anyway, yes it did keep her next to me at the table, she's very food driven, but it wasn't always quiet, sometimes she'd start "asking" for treats, barking and demanding more. Overall, the whole holiday food scenario worked better than I thought it would, thank you for all your tips, but I think me and Bonnie can do better, over the next few weeks at home. She's in season now, and I have 3 weeks of homebound training in front of me, all advice welcome. I really want to crack this!!! When she starts demanding more treats, what should my tactic be? I know I shouldn't give her any, but I'm not sure if I should just ignore her whilst she's barking at me, or tell her to shhh, or take her away? I find I do get cross, my patience wears thin when she demands treats, I've obviously spoilt her. I want to get to a point where we can have dinner in peace without constantly feeding the dog from my chair, I feel like she's just begging, and winning! Thanks everyone
If my pups are noisy or demanding at meal times I put them behind the baby gate with a filled Kong. Any shouting after they’ve had the Kong is totally ignored, no eye contact no words, nothing. They soon get the message and can be allowed in the room with us. If they revert to fussing we revert to plan A. It takes time, but works in the end.
Hi @Caro A , the way I taught cassie was by teaching boundary games from Absolute dogs, she already knew about going to her mat it's very similar to teaching that. She has a bed in our kitchen, where her crate was as a puppy, not possible to pen it off. I'm not sure if there is a video anywhere of the technique, I used the elearning __ @snowbunny might know, also @edzbird was doing it at the same time. I found it really good, and Cassie who is 2 now chooses to go to her bed as soon as food goes on the plate, and anytime we sit to the table. I have noticed to that it transfers to other places where we might be eating, she just lies down now.hope this makes sense, I am on my phone !
We used to put our pup in her crate at meal times. When the crate went I put the piece of vet bed that had been in her crate in the same space. She started automatically lying on that and still does it as soon as we start food preparation, cooking and eating. I always tell her she’s a good girl. We then eat, ignoring both dogs. They both know not to disturb us when we are eating. They also know when we have finished and tidied away, they will get a kong, so everyone is happy. You could train her to go on a mat and throw her treats for staying on it. Or give her a frozen kong to keep her busy. Unfortunately it might not be a quick fix but somehow I think it better than you ‘drip feeding’ treats when you are trying to eat yourself. I am not surprised you are finding it difficult.
Thanks that sounds good, thank you, the ignoring the barking bit is difficult eh? I think I need more patience, thank you for your help
Thank you, I'm going to look that up today, sounds like you've reached a really good scenario, thank you
Hi there, I’ve been doing the boundary games with Bonnie this week. We’ve done 3 sessions of 15 mins each for the last few days. We’ve got to the point where we are starting to introduce distractions, sometimes she wants to move sometimes she stays really well. My question is, at what point do I introduce a cue word for her to go to her mat, at the moment she goes there when she sees the treat bag, maybe I never do a cue? Except the off cue. I’m assuming I just keep doing this excersise everyday, with high value food and her kibble ration. Should I put her mat close to the dinner table now whilst we are eating and do the excersise? Or do you think she needs more practice. I’ve downloaded the pdf version of these games, I like them, but seems like I might have to pay for the full video system as I’ve got too many questions, is that what you did? I’d love to get to the point where she behaves/settles next to me without begging for food. Thanks
Haha -- think I got stuck on this aswell, but at some point I must of introduced the cue "go to your bed" -- but she already knew "go to your mat" so not much difference there. Actually quite often now she takes her cue from our food being dished up, now I think about it. I would say give her the verbal cue when she goes there of her own accord and go from there. So that she does it without seeing the treat bag. No, I didn't buy the full course, I had @snowbunny to help me Hopefully she'll be along soon Trouble with me is I'm a shocker for half doing things. Sounds like you're doing well, the games are fun aren't they? I would think you could try it while you eat, so that she builds up that association, although I guess if you have family there this why you need to build up the distraction?
She shouldn’t need to see the treat bag in order to perform anything (because that's bribing), but if you're shaping to start off with then you need some sort of cue that says "this is the start of a session and you'll get paid for behaviours". I use "ready to work?". Then, as with anything, you only introduce your final cue when you would gamble £100 that the behaviour would be performed (without the cue). So, for boundary games, you'd be waiting for her to hop onto the boundary uncued. You'd pay her for that. Then you'd give her your release cue (have you got this strong yet? It really needs to be something you work on at least as hard as the "get on the bed" part - I want mine to get off with enthusiasm when I give the release cue.) and she'd jump off, which you'd reward. If you would bet £100 that, at this point, she will immediately jump back onto the bed, that's when you're ready to introduce the final cue. If she's not there yet, you need to keep working on the shaping and build her value in the bed more. I hope that's clear, feel free to ask any more questions There's no such thing as "half doing things". You're just letting your dog benefit from some latent learning Seriously, I do the same, but dogs are great at picking up where we left off when we decide down the line that we want to progress something we started previously.
Yes, I still find it a difficult transition between shaping and rewarding. I tend to show the treat for too long. I had no idea whatever about dog training when Tatze was a pup and she’s still a bit of a ‘show me the money’ girl I make different maistakes with each pup. The only thing every pup has been top of the class with has been recall and that’s thanks to Pippa’s detailed and brilliant book ‘Total Recall’. I try to imagine the jackpot as £200 in human terms. So, I do as asked and get £200 as a surprise reward. That’s going to give me an enthusiasm even if the ‘normal’ reward for the task is £1. I’ll keep trying for the random £200! (I’ve never gambled but I’m sure that’s how it works)
