Loose lead walking and context

The Pig goes to daycare every Tuesday, which is run by a couple on their little farm. It seems lovely, she has the run of the yard, a paddock and their kitchen and living room and they all snooze on the sofa together. She gets a walk at lunchtime. Since last year I have not let anyone have her off lead without me around because I don’t want her practicing hunting or just running off after deer, so I have asked them to walk her on lead for the group walk (and I have to trust them that they do this...)

But this causes other problems, because I have been working on loose lead walking for ages and don’t want that messed up either. However I have tried to make the context very different, so when we are doing loose lead walking, she walks on my left, on her flat collar, and I use a cue. She is not allowed to sniff, and if the lead goes tight we stop or change direction.

If we are doing some relaxed walking or really need to get somewhere and it’s too difficult for her to loose-lead in that situation, I use a different cue, and attach her lead to her back fastening harness. She knows then she is allowed to roam about a bit in front of me, and the lead is ok being tight on occasion. She knows this difference very well.

So anyway I asked the daycare people to walk her on her harness, and I assumed they had been doing for the last year, but today I chatted to the man as he picked the Pig up and he didn’t go to pick up her harness so I handed him it and he said ‘oh you know she is much better just on her collar’. I KNOW she is better on her collar because I train it every day and don’t allow one step forward with the lead tight on her collar! But of course they can’t walk her like that, in scenty fields with other dogs off-lead! Even OH doesn’t walk her on her collar because he can’t be consistent with it. I tried to explain why I wanted her on her harness but I got the feeling it wasn’t really sinking in.

So anyway after that long preamble, do you think that a walk once a week with someone else on her collar, allowing her to pull and be out of position, will mess up her training? I am hoping the context (the other person, I suppose) is enough for her to discriminate, but I am worried if she is able to discriminate it is by the presence of treats or not (because I am still rewarding for varying durations of loose lead depending on difficulty, and the daycare people of course are not) which isn’t what I want her to be focussed on! I also don’t like the idea of her pulling on her collar damaging her throat but I think they think I am fussy and paranoid already and I don’t want to annoy them by banging on about everything

 

No, I think she’ll be fine.

Keir knows what ‘working’ walking is just by the type of lead he has on. You are doing right to change the context completely, but just the fact that she’s with you should do the trick.

 

I also think she'll be fine. I work very very hard on Coco's loose lead walking (with treats), and he he mainly OK for me. OH walks him Saturday/Sunday (on the same harness), no treats, and lets him pull and swap sides willy nilly. Coco knows the different contexts (just change of person).

I think I would be inclined to insist on them using her harness though, just to protect her neck.

 

Oh thank you that makes me feel better! So if a numpty like my OH were to walk Kier on his special working lead but allow all sorts of misbehaviour, you think it wouldn’t impact his walking on his working lead with you?

 

Maybe, but he’d soon get back into his stride with me

My husband is also a registered puppy walker and does Keir’s training when I’m at work on Wednesdays. Mr Boogs isn’t as keen as me on being consistent but I don’t see any change in Keir on Thursdays. ‘Tho I do think he is beginning to see the value of being consistent.

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Yeah I should, I just don’t know how to bring it up again now given that I already tried several times in our face-to-face conversation and it wasn’t clear whether he was agreeing to or not! Ugh I hate awkward interpersonal situations where the dog is concerned

 

Hi Lara, I'm a little confused about your initial message. How old is your dog? And your loose lead walking sounds a lot like it it is formal heeling. Do you see a difference between heeling and loose lead walking? Sorry for so many questions. I am just trying to get a better picture of what is happening. regards Michael

 

Hi Micheal, the dog is almost three so we should have loose lead walking more solid than we do, but it is generally pretty good. It’s not quite formal heeling position but her body should not really be much in front of my legs and the lead should be loose at the fixed length that I always have it. If she gets out of position she usually knows to back up and reposition herself next to me, or if she has really forgotten herself we change direction. And she doesn’t change sides, stop to sniff etc. So it is relatively formal and we use it generally for pavement walking etc. (Actual formal heeling we do off lead only and her nose is at my left leg). Her lead is attached to her collar for this, so she knows that pressure on the collar (ie lead tight) means no going forward, ever.

Then if I want her to relax and enjoy herself for a bit but still be on lead, I will give her the other command which allows her to leave that position, sniff, roam about infront of me a bit, and it doesn’t matter if the lead is occasionally tight. It’s attached to her back fastening harness for this, so the sensation as well as the cue is different.

And I have been using a mixture of things to tell her which is required at any one time; a ‘stay close’ command and lead attached to flat collar for the more formal loose lead walk, and ‘go sniff’ for the relaxed out-of-position one with the lead attached to back harness.

My worry was, with the formal walk not 100% yet (well, not in rabbity sniffy fields with other dogs running past her off lead, certainly, as we mostly use it for pavement walking), that someone walking her on her collar whilst letting her pull and get out of position would mess up my training. But it seems from others’ replies that they can hopefully discriminate the context well enough to still understand what I want despite being allowed to monkey about with others!

 

This is probably silly, but could you send your princess (I'm avoiding calling her by her "pet" name, so unfair ) JUST with her harness with tag attached and no collar.
Or do you think they would just bung a collar on?
Not sure how I would feel about that, I am all for nekkid dogs unless on walks and I guess that doesn't work at day care.
I think I'm with the other guys in that she will know when she needs to do what and when or with whom. I know Lilly does.

 

Thanks Lara for the information. Dogs learn patterns. That is what you've been teaching her with the cues and choice of equipment. I would aim for consistency of the two different walking patterns. I would ask your minder to keep to the patterns you have established. I realise the change only happens once a week. But that only invites confusion. Regards Michael

 

It just depends of what you want. I have been told to do the opposite. By not learning patterns the dog will look up to you and ask what I want from him rather to read what he is expecting to do....

 

When the dog attempts to understand what you want him to do, he will still be relying on a pattern of your bevaviour. There is no esaping routines, habits and patterns. It's how they learn our body and spoken language.

 

If it’s any consolation, Snowie knows exactly how to behave according to the person walking him. Me: sniff sniff sniff weave yank sniff. Husband: sniff sniff yank sniff trot along briskly. Cleaner: slow loose-lead amble.

Our cleaner is a slow walker. She takes Snowie to the park on the days she works in our house. It’s amazing to watch Snowie walk with her: he matches her speed and doesn’t pull. No specific training; this is her speed, and he falls into line.

Re collar at daycare. I’d be very specific of your needs: the harness for walks only. You’re paying them for a service and to care for your dog. They have no right possibly damaging her throat. You are your dog’s advocate.

 

Yep you are right, I need to be stronger with them for her sake.

 

Harley walks lovely for me, but will pull the OH around everywhere. She is able to differentiate between the 2 of us, so I can’t see it being a problem apart from maybe her throat if they let her pull.

 

Firstly @Lara you are paying for this service just as you would pay for a child minder so it's your right no matter how awkwad to insist on the way you want your dog walked and on what equipment to protect her. Hattie walks on a loose lead for me yet my children and even David complain that she pulls, well not for me so you're not training her as I do every day, get with the program is my reply Charlie is walked on a back fastening harness, he walks well for David, for my daughter Grace he also walks well but for my 18 year old son Thomas he walks like a dream, infact he behaves wonderfully for him, interacting with a ball, find it games, recall and stays with him never leaving him, the difference is amazing, so yes dogs know, I think she will be fine. Our dogs are not silly x