Crating At Agility -Need a reality check please:)

Urgh, I hate the feeling of being both correct and unreasonable at the same time. And that is how I feel right now.

I used to attend a fun agility class on a Monday late afternoon. Something I could never do before because I worked full, normal hours at a hospital. But since I am in private practice, things like this have been part of the positive aspects of running my own practice.
As I said in another post, I have had some health issues and I haven't been to training in over a month. In that time, and rather out of the blue the class has been taken over by someone else and it is now called agility foundation.

So besides my anxiety over meeting a new group of trainers (some I have seen but don't know) I was frustrated at getting a message today that our dogs needs to be left in our cars or in their crates until it is their turn. It will be explained tonight and in the next few weeks we will play crate games to make being in the crate fun.

So here comes the hissy fit from my side: I am not a competitor in agility, don't want to be, never have been and I LIKE having my dog with me. She is not used to being left in the car. And if we were starting with the games first and the action of leaving them in cars and crates later I would be a bit more flexible but I feel it is a bit backside before face. I HATE the dogs going beserk in the cars and crates (mainly BC's) but I am the only lab there and I dont want Harley feeling like she has to behave like that to get attention or from distress. I realise it is quite the done thing in agility but that is why I went to a "fun" group where ambition was low.

Of course I messaged saying I won't be there tonight. And then I sent a direct message saying that I am not willing to have my dog stay in a car or crate. She is crate trained and in an emegency I know she will be fine but I am trying to improve and maintain our bond. It isn't that telekenetic. I like sitting with her on lead and laughing at her silliness or playing LAT.

I suppose I am just annoyed that I finally can do things like this with Harley but now I can't. And that the old fun class has been taken over by someone else and it is more serious. And I suppose I am just huffy.

 

Hi @Harley Quinn
You can feel absolutely as huffy as you want - no need to apologise!
It doesn't sound great - I haven't been to an agility class so don't know how much time dogs spend waiting around - but you could always go along without Harley and watch a class first to either confirm (or change ) your thoughts - might it be that the instructor just wants to do this initially till she gets to know the dogs, and how they behave around each other?

Could you do some 1-1 agility sessions with Harley, and maybe in the future a more fun class will come along? You never know, there may be others like you who don't want to compete and they may reinstate the fun class - it's certainly worth letting them know what you do, and don't want to get out of agility.

 

You're not a huffy woman I wouldn't leave mine in a car either. It's not safe or fair to the dog. is the agility just for the owner or the dog? Being stuck in a car or crate is no fun.., I don't like the dictate by text and I don't like the lack of discussion.
I wanted to go to a scent work class having explained l would be coming by bus or taxi was slightly disabled was told dogs need to be left in cars? And I needed to bring cardboard boxes how I was going to do that ? I just didn't bother I get so tired of explaining and trying to manage and then realising I've not been listened to at all.
I hope you can find a way to still enjoy agility.

 

I think you've done the right thing. Right for you AND Harley. You know she won't be happy being left. I understand how disappointed you are feeling that the class has changed. Hopefully you will find one that suits, in the mean time - just enjoy training and, of course, bonding with Harley YOUR way.

 

I would be having a hissy fit as well. There are many training seminars that I would live to attend with Jen but the stipulation often is when the dog isn't 'working' then it must be in a crate or in the car. On principle alone I will never leave a dog alone in a car with the risk of theft or heat considerations. If my dog can't be with me, for an event I've paid my hard earned money to attend with her, then I'm not going to attend either

 

I 100% agree that you need to do what's right for you and for Harley.

However, I will happily admit that I have no issues leaving Ella in her crate or in the car, in the right circumstances.

Yes, I do compete in obedience trials with Ella but leaving these events aside, I have still found situations where the car/crate is great.

There are often times where you need to let go of your dog (walk a rally/agility course, help with setup/packup/jump changes, pop to the toilet etc.) and in the past my options were either have someone hold Ella or tie her to a stake or fence. The funny thing is, when I brought her crate to training the first time, I opened the door and she ran straight in. Ella loved to have her familiar crate to sit in and I find she actually relaxes more in there than just sitting with me. On other occasions, especially when the weather has been dreadful, I've popped Ella in the car where she's been warm, dry and fast asleep!

I am by no means trying to change your mind as you will know what you are comfortable with. But, it's not a bad idea to pop along without Harley as @leejane suggested and see how you feel with the new setup.

 

Thank you for the responses.
I did get a response to my private message where I said that I don't feel the need to further train Harley to be comfortable in a crate as we used her crate and pen extensively until she was about a year. We are fortunate that Harley is a very well behaved young dog and doesn't chew things in the house.
Anyway the reply was that the crating and cars was so that the dogs are in there until it is their turn. And sure, fine, if that is how they would like it to be I am sure it adds more time for the dog working to concentrate. But then they also say that this class is for dogs to play games and have fun and it isn't for competitors.

But then the trainer added that my comment about my dog not needing the crate suggests to (the trainer) that I don't yet understand what a powerful element it is to give your dog even more confidence, drive and also safety. - you know that sound that old fashioned kettles make when they are boiling...that kind of whistling sound. I clearly wrote that Harley is crate trained but we don't use it in the house anymore. Just a reminder that Harley stays in the back yard when we are out and we use parts of her play pen across door ways if we need to restrict her access to an area. I also think that if I had to use a crate Harley would adapt very well to it but I don't like the idea of bring it, use it and we will learn the games later. Or that I don't have the option of having my dog on a lead and with me. I know I am being stubborn and thank you @SwampDonkey for saying that I am not huffy and usually I am not but I am occassionally. Especially when I feel pushed about.

 

Emily, I don't in anyway judge people who leave their dogs in crates or cars as long as the dog is okay in there. It is MAYHEM at our local agility shows with the, mainly collie type dogs, going beserk in those crates and cars. The obedience shows are a different story and it is usually quiet and calm with the occasional woof. So if this was my obedience trainer I wouldn't think twice because I have also seen her dogs in her car or in crates under shade all the time. But I also so know that she would do the introduction work first and then have the dogs stay in.

 

The lady who held the class previously asked me if I could attend a Tuesday morning class at 11:30 but unfortunately that is a bit tough with work. But because we are such agility newbies a few cones and home made jumps would keep us busy so I will ask DH to bring some plastic pipes from work (he is in HVAC) so lots of adaptable pipes. And I will use youtube and other sources to teach Harls and myself. I will still attend obedience on the weekends and she goes to day care on Wednesday with all her other stuff inbetween.

 

I think I have some kind of problem too the more I get pushed the harder I push back
Woman say no I don't like this are huffy men saying no I don't like this are strong?

 

I have only taken part in a fun all sorts of training that included a bit of agility when Red was a puppy last year. There were two other dogs in the group, so the waiting around was minimal. I have no other experience. However, I don’t like the sound of dogs having to wait in the car or in a crate - what’s the fun in that? Red too was crate trained but the crates are long gone. Sounds like Harley has a pretty busy week so why put yourself through that when you don’t have to? I keep meaning to set up a bit of an agility course in the garden.

 

Urgh, this is why the forum is good for my reality checks. I feel comfortable with my decision and willing to try something in the garden. But DH phones and I take the chance to tell him...and what do I get...?

"Maybe the trainer has a method to this"

Urgh. No! It is incredible that when he says something, even though it sounds rational I am completely irritated by it.

 

The day I stopped training classes was the day I felt released from jail! It also gave me so much more time to go places that I enjoyed far more - forest walks, the beach, etc. But it took 3 years to get to the point of not feeling obliged to attend school. For some reason I thought I had to go to a class in order to train my dog. And on the odd occasion I went to the dog school shop, after we’d stopped classes, I realized from Snowie’s behavior when we got there just how stressful he found it. He’s a very confident dog, so I didn’t realize it when we were training. But all the barking and performing when we got there, I realized in hindsight that it was not his happy place. He also gets so much more out of our free time for outings.

I’m not slamming all schools. We went to a particular awful one not knowing any better. Sounds like you’re listening to your intuition.

 

@MF I know what you mean. I go to obedience classes because I feel like a terrible dog owner if I don't. And to be honest Harley is very stimulated by the work we are doing now but I also wonder if I have hit a ceiling. Not her but me. And since we did our CGC bronze I have been MUCH less motivated to train in a formal setting.

 

Personally I won’t leave Harley in the car in any training environment. If a training environment has insisted on this, I have not gone. When I done scent training they said ALL dogs needed to be in the car for the first 45-60 mins during the intro and video. I said I wouldn’t do this as Harley gets stressed in the car and it took me years to get her to be in the car with me and calm. They were ok with me bring her in and settling her on a mat next to me. Again, at agility, several people leave their dogs in the car, I won’t for the reason I stated above. I like the fact that we can go to training together and actually spend the whole time together as a team. She has learned a lot about settling in different environments which has been amazing for us. I left my agility class a few month ago due to how the trainers advocated ‘dominance’ and also about putting them in a crate and they will learn to settle.
For some people, this isn’t an issue and their dogs settle and are happy being crated which is great and I have no issue when this is the situation, but it doesn’t work for me and Harley.
I wholeheartedly agree with you digging your heels in on this one.

 

Yes I agree, I wouldn't leave my dogs in the car either it's just not fair and you are right to have told the trainer exactly that.

Totally agree. I enjoyed my classes with Hattie very much as I did them with my daughter and Hattie loved it no stress involved at all. However, when we got Charlie I will never forgive myself for putting him in what I know now to have been a very stressful training class which didn't help him or me one little bit. I think classes etc. are great for some dogs but not for all. I felt awful if I wasn't doing a class with Charlie. I stopped going to agility, gundog everything and work with him myself, we have FUN not stress and that's what counts for me. Charlie is leaping around my feet when I get the "bag" out for a training session in our own garden. I think there can be a lot of pressure from some dog owners to do a class. What did dog owners do before there were so many sports, classes etc. to do with their dogs!

Good for you @Harley Quinn you know your dog better than anyone so don't feel bad at all xx

 

AMEN!! Sing it, @SwampDonkey - this sums it up brilliantly

You're 'simply' asserting yourself @Harley Quinn (not always easy to do well), so brava for doing the best for you and for your dog x

 

Can’t go wrong there @Harley Quinn.

Never took Sky to any training - she’s a fab dog. Felt I needed to do lots last year for Red. Some good, some bad and some I feel guilty that I caused both me and Red stress (the evening, she nibbled my car seat belt - on reflection, I understand ). No formal training anymore, just ongoing day to day stuff.

 

I've arrived at this too ! Cassie has needed this for sure in the last year, and what we have done has benefited us, but really I think we're done with it. She'll always be her vivacious self, no amount of training can change that.

@Harley Quinn , I don't think you're being huffy either, you enjoyed the classes you did before so I guess you are disappointed. I go to agility to do stuff with her, not to stand around without her. Or to listen to all those barking dogs
Just ghastly.

I've even stopped calling for tea at a friends house on the way back from training because I feel mean leaving her in the car when we've been working together.

 

I used to go to loads of different training classes but it's become a lot more difficult for me as times gone by. With Rory I've only done puppy sociaisation and a 121 class. He's just as well trained and calm as the others were. Realistically I teach him all the time we just enjoy being together and doing stuff together. I don't think how you achieve it is that important but a good relationship means more to your dog than anything.