Our lab puppy is now 21 weeks so just 5 months and we have an 11 yr old lab. Our older lab now for the most part likes the puppy now, there are times he doesn't want to engage. We are having a hard time determining what is considered "normal" play between the two of them. I will try to explain what we observe. They will engage with playing with a toy together, one will hold one end the other will hold the other, there really isn't a lot of tugging they just kind play and walk around in circles and if one drops it they will wait for the other to pick it up and continue, I know this is ok. However, after awhile it starts to escalate to what we are unsure of. They (mostly our older dog) he just randomly will bark which in turn will make the puppy bark, the puppy will lay on the floor on his back and our older dog will be over him, they aren't biting each other but they will "mouth" each other, then after a bit the puppy will get up then they start showing teeth and bark and look like they are going to bite but they don't, we always stop it at that time because we feel it's too aggressive, neither one is starting it it just gets to this. Then when we try to remove puppy because our older dog will just stop when we say but the puppy wont he will try to bite us and it's harder than normal, its kind of one of his maniac modes so we put him in his crate. I know that maybe these playful times are making him too excited but it just seems to happen a couple times per day. This is even after the puppy has been ran, walked played fetch for awhile. I just feel bad putting puppy in his crate when it's not really him always initiating this. I don't know if we should just let them play it out and let each other tell the other what they like and don't like? I just don't know.
It sounds as though your dogs might be 'mouth wrestling'. At least for some of the time. It's hard to say for sure without seeing them. Mouth wrestling is very typical play between a friendly tolerant older dog and a young puppy. It's much safer for the puppy than the kind of shoulder barging, rolling around games that older youngsters sometimes attempt with puppies. When mouth wrestling, very often the two dogs will lie down facing one another, mouths open, and making biting movements around each other's faces. Teeth will clash occasionally, and the dogs will both groan and growl, but tails will be wagging. Personally I draw the line at barking. I don't like my dogs to bark so if they get so excited that they start barking (usually the puppy is the culprit) I end the game and separate them for a while. Other than that, I wouldn't interfere with straightforward mouth wrestling as this kind of play is brilliant for puppies. However, if the older dog is standing over the puppy, that is not such a good sign, especially if he is standing quite stiffly with straight legs. So it would be a good idea to get someone with experience to observe them, and to supervise in the meantime to ensure things are not getting out of hand. If you can post a video on here, we might be able to tell you a bit more about what is going on
We have Roamin' (12 weeks old tomorrow), and four older dogs. One is 14 months, one is 3, one is 4 and one is 12.5 years. Managing play with the older dogs is always a concern. Our eldest girl is usually the one I allow to be with the puppy most of the day because she does the "mouth wrestling" described by Pippa. She is gentle and motherly with the puppies, correcting their behavior. But this time, our old girl, diagnosed with a mass cell tumor that is slowly taking her from us, has to be kept separate from the puppy. (He not only plays too rough for her, but is fascinated by her tumor.) Inside play is our biggest issue with this particular puppy. Our other three all want to play with the puppy but the escalation is rapid because of Roamin's personality. Not a biter of we humans, he latches on to the neck or lip or ear of the other dog and intervention is necessary because for some reason, the older dogs will not correct his behavior. If we can't intervene rapidly enough, the older dog will use a leg to push Roamin' off and in far too rough a manner to be allowed. HE plays extremely rough and the older dogs are on the defensive within about 3 minutes of play. So, I allow one on one with only one of the older dogs each day and I now set a timer for 5 minutes and end it before it escalates. During that 5 minutes, I am now correcting Roamin with a "no bite"...I've a few war wounds from this method, but they don't learn if someone doesn't teach them and for whatever reason the older dogs are not teaching, they are reacting. There are only two 5 minute sessions per day allowed right now. ( Our big black boy is now living with our daughter and he used to be the one to set boundaries for the puppies when they came home, I'm wondering if his absence is why the others aren't correcting the behavior themselves - they never had to before! I think he and our old girl did the job in the past - or maybe Roamin' is just going to be a challenge and they are all overwhelmed by his style of play.) Outside play is limited and heavily supervised - this means that I only allow Roamin out with another of the dogs when there is someone there to help me end the play if it gets out of hand. We've found that filling the baby pool helps to keep the play water centered rather than in wrestling play. And again, this play is limited to about 5 minutes at a time at the moment and doesn't happen if there was ten minutes of rough housing in the house. (Now, if play is going well, for example they are playing chase me instead of wrestling, then I will allow it to go on a bit longer because Roamin' self regulates that type of play and stops when he is done.) I think you are doing the right thing in supervising and observing the play and stopping it before it escalates too far. You seem concerned about crating the puppy after the end of play so here is what we do. We don't put Roamin' in to his crate when play ends, we just place the other dogs into another room and say "quiet time" unless it is time for a crated nap; if this is the case, then its outside alone for a potty and into the crate with an ice cube or Kong and again, the "quiet time" statement to Roamin'. This makes the transition from active play to a quiet, calm state not a punishment but a routine/house rule. I've found that this reinforces the behavior I want when the puppy is older and crated for less time during the daytime; the "quiet time" command has the dogs finding a nice spot and lying down while I get some work done or in the evening when it is time to settle in for a good read or some TV.
