I was told that it's not a good idea for any dog to have a face to face meeting with other dogs while being leashed as this can lead to a negative effect. Is this true? He does go to puppy socialization group twice a week (which he can do up till 6 months old)and he'll be starting Obedience class in a couple weeks. Will this be enough for him to learn how to act proper around other dogs.
Hi Jade - The questions you ask there are complex and interesting... there probably isn't one 'right' response, either. I will give you my take... Puppies within the socialisation period, need socialisation with other dogs and puppies. The socialisation period ends at 12-14wks old. After that, they are not getting 'socialised' through contact with other dogs - because the word 'socialisation' refers specifically to the socialisation period. I'd suggest it's not a good idea to attend this type of class until your puppy is 6 months old - that would be way too late and would make me concerned. Baby 8-12 week old pups are very different to 6 month old pups, which can be extremely boisterous and rough. One class catering to this entire age group, wouldn't be ideal. How you provide socialisation - optimally - has many different solutions, and is to some extent dependent on the dog concerned and what is available where you live. Some people may know enough other people with well adjusted adult dogs or puppies, to be able to provide for this themselves away from classes. Others may need to attend a class if the only alternative is a dog park. I usually suggest that, once a pup comes out of the socialisation period (is 14wks+), assuming they are well-socialised and not nervous or showing any signs of fear-based behaviours, you can decrease social contact with other dogs and increase the training and bonding between you and the dog. You could check out this article I wrote: http://totallydogtraining.com/over-friendly-dog/ In a nutshell, you want enough socialisation by the age of 14wks that your dog is well-adjusted with other dogs, but not so much that your dog craves contact with other dogs and sees them as way more interesting than you... A poorly-run class is worse than not attending a class at all. Puppies can learn many detrimental things from attending the 'wrong' type of class. They can learn to bully other dogs/puppies relentlessly for play, even if the other dog doesn't want it. (Labradors are especially prone to this, as they are socially full-on with other dogs - frequently, not always.) Classes should be extremely closely supervised, and play interrupted if at any point it seems unequal or one pup seems to be trying to get away or not enjoying the interaction. The puppies should not all be off leash together, as it's unlikely they will all be suitable playmates for each other and also unlikely to be possible to supervise things closely enough. 3-4 pups can be let off at once, but they should be matched as having a similar play-style and supervised closely. As for meeting other pups on leash: In theory, and putting aside practical stuff, it does make it much simpler if there is the rule 'when on leash, you never get to meet the other dog' - hopefully you then end up with a dog which knows other dogs are off-limits when on leash and doesn't attempt to pull or lunge at them to reach them. (Of course there is a lot of training in this too, it's not as simple as just not letting on-leash greetings happen - but it does help to make things more black and white.) On-leash greetings can also have tension in them, because dogs tend to pull towards each other and tight leashes can affect body language and tension when they reach the other dog - sometimes causing reactivity from one dog or the other. For these reasons, some handlers choose not to let their dog meet other dogs on leash. Practically, though - try being the person attending a puppy class with your on-leash puppy and not letting other people come up to you, with their puppy, to 'say hi'. It can be very difficult! You will need to walk off and away from someone approaching like that. For many reasons, people don't want to be socially rude so it can be hard to implement this unless you are around other obedience-minded people and all have the same understanding. In addition, sometimes (especially in the US), on leash is all there is available in many places. So choosing not to let your pup meet other dogs on leash could remove an important opportunity to meet other dogs. (Which your puppy may or may not need, remember.) I usually suggest (in my classes) that, if people want their pup to meet another dog on leash, that they 1) wait for their pup to give them focus or eye contact (it helps if you have taught 'watch me') 2) release their pup to 'go say hi' or 'ok' whilst the puppy is giving that focus or eye contact - so their pup knows they can go meet the other dog and the focus is reinforced by meeting the other pup. 3) keep the lead loose as their pup approaches the other pup so you're not reinforcing pulling on the lead. (This can involve jogging a few paces!). Of course you also need to ensure that the other pup/dog also wants to meet yours, and is well-adjusted. This way, if the pup is not given the release cue or permission to 'go say hi', they are not going to get to meet the other dog. So it gives you a bit of both worlds. Hope that helps!
Hi you mention above that Labradors who attend the wrong type of class can bully or relentlessly play with dogs/puppies? The other day I invited my friend and her dog over (female cocka poo 2/5 years) and my male chocolate lab 1 but my dog played non stop with her dog for over an hour and half before beginning to tire and leave her alone. Friend asked me to find out why does my dog do this? Is it normal? And what should I be doing?
Why does your dog play relentlessly with another dog? Because he finds it reinforcing. Is it normal? It's normal for dogs to try to do what they find reinforcing. Different dogs find different things reinforcing. You can also influence what they find reinforcing, especially if they are young, through what you expose them to and what you do with them. What should you be doing? That depends on what you want to achieve. A cockerpoo and a labrador would not usually be my choice for playmates, since the labrador would usually end up bullying the cockerpoo and would have a rougher and often 'throat grabbing' play style which the cockerpoo probably wouldn't appreciate.... it does depend on the two dogs. You say your own dog didn't stop for over an hour and a half before 'beginning to tire and leave her alone' - what was the cockerpoo doing in all this? If she was really happy in the encounter, for the entire encounter, why was it left down to the labrador to decide when it stopped? Why did the cockerpoo not come back and 'request' more play and get the lab to play more with her, when the lab tired? Probably because the cockerpoo really wasn't happy in the encounter after all and actually wanted it to end much sooner than it did. (Total hypothesis but very likely.) Assuming the play is consensual and both dogs were happy with it, and you were closely supervising, you'd need to be asking yourself whether you want your dog to learn what they are learning. Did you read the link I posted in reply to Jade, to the article I wrote? That explains in more detail. Excessive contact with other dogs can go one of two ways: You can either end up with a dog which is addicted to other dogs and seeks out play with them at every opportunity, running off because they want to see them and finding you comparatively boring... Or you can sometimes instead achieve the opposite - habituate the dog to other dogs, so they are more boring to them and they are less likely to seek out contact with them. The latter is what happens in multi-dog households, because the dogs spend all day with each other and so get plenty company from their own kind at home, they can frequently then be less interested in seeking out canine company on walks. But, if you have a single dog and you give them infrequent blasts of rough play with other dogs, you often just end up creating a canine bully who sees other dogs as the best thing in the world - no matter how the other dog feels about it. Di Stevens of Wylanbriar labs has a post on her site slightly similar to mine on the subject. She is not force-free (and wouldn't claim to be!) but there is a lot I agree with in what she says: http://www.wylanbriar.com/behavioural-information/avoiding-growing-an-oversocial-dog/
Thank you didn’t see your reply earlier. I didn’t realise he was being a bully, that’s not what I want. He just enjoys being with other dogs and i see what you mean. My friends dog did tell mine off but it took him a while to get the message. She would join in, chase a little bit, growl and repeat. I’m not sure why she didn’t but then she would go up to him and want him to play. I will re read the post to Jade.
Thank you so much. I've read through the material you posted on my thread and some articles on other threads. I understand what you mean. I've decided to only take him to puppy socialization group until 14 weeks. Then next to obedience class. I'll focus on training.
