We are getting our puppy in a couple of weeks, and she has been raised by the breeder in a kennel in the garden. We’ve since read that as our dog will live in the house with us, it would have been better to choose a breeder that raised puppies in the home so they are used to the house noises & general busyness of home life, before 8 weeks. Anyone got a puppy from an outside kennel that can share their experience? Thanks!
Hi Pablo and welcome to the forum. It is important to choose a breeder that understands the importance of puppy socialization, and how it works. And who is willing to put the theory into practice. Your puppy should ideally be used to normal household sights and sounds before you take him home, but it's perfectly possible to do that with a litter of puppies raised in a kennel. What is does mean is that the breeder must take the trouble to bring the puppies into the house each day, usually in twos or threes, and let them explore and enjoy normal household life. Many breeders do this. To find out whether or not your breeder has done so, you'll probably need to ask them some indirect questions . Having said that, much of the socialization process will take place between 8 and 12 weeks under your supervision and a confident kennel-raised puppy that has met and been handled by lots of people and is used to some bustle and noise, would normally adapt pretty quickly to life in a house, and to sounds like vacuums and dishwashers. Even if they have never heard one until then.
I have had a kennel raised puppies and all have settled in the house fine. Mine had recordings of things going 'crash, bang, wallop' playing, so all noises became nothing to be wary of. As Pippa says all should be fine.
Both of our dogs were kennel raised, and I don't know if they ever saw the inside of a house before we got them at 7 weeks. They had seen a lot of people and other dogs, and they both did fine.
My dog was kennel raised, but the kennels are right next to the family home and the puppies were around the family a lot. He is generally not bothered by household activities as long as they are introduced appropriately. I suspect most of his uncivilised behaviour is due to his personality rather than the fact that he wasn't raised indoors!
Three of our five were "kennel raised" puppies - the minute they experienced the air conditioning in our Florida home, they were inside dogs. While crated, I would turn on the vacuum in another room, have the TV or music playing, deliberately drop something like a metal lid etc the first week home. The only thing I have found more difficult with kennel raised vs home raised is house training. Kennel raised seemed to take much longer to train but that is simply my experience and house training time is individual to each dog. I would say that when looking for a breeder, a house raised puppy is optimal BUT a kennel raised puppy can be socialized to all the things that come with living in the house when it is done slowly and not abruptly. It is my personal opinion that Labradors are people dogs who want to be in the house with you and that any deficit that kennel raising may have at 8 weeks is quickly overcome by the attention and love they are getting in your home.
I think in the US, it would be uncommon to find a real breeder with house raised pups. Plenty of "back yard breeders" with house raised pups, but most of the pros have kennels, and have several dogs they are working with and training.
Hi, I have been reading and listening to Kathryn Lord's work on socialisation. She indicates that the critical socialisation period in the canine is geneally 4 to 8 weeks. Up to 8 weeks the attractiveness motive outweighs the rising fear motive. After 8 weeks, dogs will not voluntarily go to new things because fear now outweighs attractiveness. Intriguingly, she made an aside in a lecture that the critical period for Labs ends at around t9 weeks not 8. Accordingly, we Lab owners can do quite a bit of socialisation before the critical period ends by the end of the 9th week. Nevertheless she is not saying one can't socialise after 9 weeks. She indicates the socialisation period extends to 16 weeks. After 9 weeks we have to actively manage the introduction of new things to the dog. The dog is no longer naturally seeking and comfortable with the unknown. And up to 16 weeks, although the length of time one has to expose a dog to something is rising, it is not onerous.
If you check out Avidog and Avidog Associate Breeders, you will find many breeders of field-bred golden retrievers and labs in the US - who receive optimal socialisation and are raised in the house: https://www.avidog.com/avidog-associate-breeder-list/
In the US it is still common to take Lab Pups at 7 weeks, partly because of socialization Richard Wolters wrote the book(s) that many Lab breeders and trainers in the US use, and he was proponent of 49 days. Both Tilly and Cooper went home with us at 47 days. I have to say it worked for us.
Yes, I think it is a very sensible practice. I will look up the helpful reference. Kathryn Lord reported that the Guide Dogs had more success when it get the puppies at 7 weeks. In Australia one generally does not get the puppy until 8 weeks old. Significantly, there is a limit on how early one should get the puppy. If the pup is taken away from the litter at 6 weeks, then the incidence of dog aggression 6 months later is higher. I now think the best course is to find a breder who will allow you to help with tending for the litter. Rope the children or grandchildren intto helping too. In doing so you help to socialise the puppies from 4 weeks on when the pup is confident about meeting all that is new.
Actually there is one in Oregon and one in Washington. That would be a very small minority of the Lab Breeders in the Pacific Northwest.
Unfortunately, some states, like our state of Florida have laws against a puppy going home before 8 weeks. The basis is that allegedly Mama's and litter-mates teach them the art of "not biting". Of course, as many will attest, puppies still bite, some of them horribly during the teething stage so personally I think it is more about puppy mills and pets stores than about responsible breeders (a breeder in Florida is anyone who has two litters or 20 puppies in a calendar year). The unintended consequence of this is of course that the backyard breeder who does only one litter a year, no socialization of the litter and no heath testing has NO legal requirement about homing their puppies as early as they choose to do so - nor do they have to get the first round of jabs done or a health certification. Anyway, my personal opinion is that 8 weeks is too late and that 6 or 7 is better because by those ages, the puppies require and benefit greatly from more personal attention than can be given to a litter of puppies....but, the law is the law. Like early spaying and neutering, someone somewhere decided that that was best and now we must all deal with the fallout of it.....at least we are making progress on the altering of our dogs too soon slowly but surely.
Who said anything about the Pacific Northwest? You said "In the US"... Most people who want a well-bred pup are happy to travel well outside their area for the best. The point being: There is access to well-raised and well socialised field-bred pups in the US. They exist. It is pretty much accepted that 8 weeks is the earliest a 'good' breeder should let a pup go. That's the earliest age recommended by Puppy Culture and by Avidog - two of the best puppy-raising systems around. I think probably what the exact best age is, depends on each individual puppy and litter and where they are at in many ways - but that is impossible to predict, so we just have to have these blanket 'one size fits all' things. I would say that many puppies go to new homes where they have to be left for some hours of the day, and very young 6 week old puppies will struggle with this much more than puppies at 8wks. Similarly, 6 week old puppies can't hold on or even have much control over toilet training at all - so new homes are going to be hit with toilet training difficulties that are much increased over an 8wk old pup - what do they do in response, do they use punishment, how does this affect their relationship if they find it so tough early on? In many ways, I think 8 weeks is best if we are going to pick a one size fits all age...
I respect your opinion, which is why I wrote "personally". My family has raised Labradors since 1965 and it has been in the last decade that we've experienced the 8 week take home "law" (granted we spent about 15 years rescuing rather than bringing home babes so it may have begun earlier and we just weren't aware of it). I know from speaking with many of our local breeders that most would like to begin homing their litters at 7 weeks rather than 8 - again from the perspective of how their individual needs are greater at that age and a feeling of not being able to fully meet them when the puppy is ready for individual training and attention. Most of the breeders I know are already house training the litters prior to them going home - beginning with designated potty areas from 3 weeks onward and including taking the litter outside directly after meals (house raised litters). And most of them are also quite concerned with their puppies not going to homes where they will be alone for 40 plus hours per week making house training (indeed all training) more difficult. Basically, each breeder has their own opinion on when the best time to begin homing is but are constrained by well intentioned laws and each puppy is an individual once they leave the litter and all training is relative to the experience and knowledge of the family they go to. But that again, is not the opinion of everyone and I respect that.
I totally agree, with our own recent litter, we found it very hard to provide enough stimulation for them between the ages of 6-8 weeks - which is why we started Avidog Woods Walks daily, trips to the beach at low tide, Puppy Culture Puppy Party, APET testing and so on. We then found it much easier to cope with them as they were much more stimulated. For sure pups between the ages of 6-8 weeks need lots of input and stimulation. I do think the 'what age is best' debate is a bit beside the point, generally, though - since it is widely accepted that responsible breeders home at 8 weeks and that is getting put into increasing laws, recommendations, and guidance of various types the world over, as you point out. So, whether we like it or not, we just have to accept it and try to help pups make the most of their last two weeks with us.
I finally found this article, which explains why 8 weeks... : http://www.gundogmag.com/training/training_gd7weeks090208/
Exactly! I enjoyed the article you shared by the way....I know of a couple of breeders who do keep puppies to ten weeks but mostly only those litters they are keeping one or two for themselves; other litters go home after the 8 weeks required by law here in Florida. I prefer a Breeder who schedules pickup for the Saturday following the 8 week birthday and not the day they turn 8 weeks of age.
